Here she shares the importance of integrating science and the arts, as well as her research on using virtual and augmented reality in the classical concert setting.

Transcript

Stella Sung: We have the opportunity to be totally creative. Totally creative. And UCF has an opportunity to be a part of that in a really big way.

James Evans:Ā Hello and welcome back to another episode of Knights Do That! We are interviewing Dr. Stella Sung on the show today. Dr. Sung is a renowned composer, Pegasus Professor, Trustee Chair Professor, and Director of CREATE at UCF. Her work at UCF spans decades and her academic career is non-linear to say the least. Starting as aĀ musicĀ professor in theĀ School of Performing Arts, Dr. Sung now brings her expertise to the School of Visual Arts and Design, where she works to inspire future generations of animators and empowers them to use music and sound to elevate their storytelling.

We’re going to discuss what it means to hold these titles, the importance of integrating science and the arts, and her research regarding using virtual and augmented reality in the classical concert setting.

Thank you Dr. Sung for being here today. How are you?

Stella Sung: Thank you. It’s great to be here with you. It’s

James Evans: It’s fantastic.

How did you develop your passion for music? That’s such an important part of your identity and what you provide to UCF and your community. Did you always know that you wanted to be a composer?

Stella Sung: I started as a kid taking piano lessons, so actually I’m trained as a classical pianist.

My undergraduate degree is from the ŗ£½ĒÖ±²„ of Michigan in Ann Arbor and is in piano performance. And then I kind of veered a little bit off to doing a master’s degree in composition. I thought it was just going to be something to explore and, you know, just kind of do. And so I have a master’s from UF in that.

And then I still felt like I could be a good pianist and make a career out of that. So I went to the ŗ£½ĒÖ±²„ of Texas at Austin and did my doctorate in piano. But you know, life has interesting paths for us and some that we know and we don’t know. And I started working more and more as a composer.

And got a lot of inspiration and encouragement in that way, just getting things published from major publishers that I never thought I would ever have that kind of opportunity. The signs were there that I should just kind of keep writing music and I kept getting commissions and working with wonderful artists and and orchestra.

Ensemble soloists. I had an opportunity to write a piece for Yoyo Ma, who was, you know, a world-famous cellist, right?

And that was kind of a really sort of marvelous opportunity to say, ā€œHey, this is, this is neat to connect to these world class artists doing the work that I do.ā€

I didn’t really start off as being a composer at all.

It took me a while to think of myself because I wasn’t planning to do that. You know, when I started writing music, I would always feel that it came naturally, it came easily. It was work, but it was sort of, I got into that zone of creativity where, you know, you kind of lose track of time and all that.

And I got to that place when I was a pianist as well, but not in the same way. And I think the turning point for me was I was awarded a fellowship at the McDowell Colony, which is in New Hampshire. And lots of well-known artists of various different kinds have gone to the McDowell Colony to do their thing. And so, it’s a beautiful place. It was set up by an American composer named Edward McDowell, and I think it’s like 400 acres. Just this beautiful New Hampshire area and every artist has their own studio. A little studio, very simple. Piano and restroom area and a little couch or something, and then a table. And that’s about it. And so it’s a very simple sort of thing.

And at that time, I didn’t have a cellphone. There were no TV or anything. So you’re just out there doing your art, right? And all the cabins, all the studios are separated pretty far away from each other. And in fact, you know, artists are asked not to bother other people. You’re kind of just doing your thing. And then we meet for meal at the main house and that sort of thing. So there is some socialization.

I had a residency for a month in beautiful September, October, where the leaves are so fantastically changing and beautiful. And I took a project there and a set of three songs that was going to write on poetry by Robert Frost. And it was just this turning point where started writing this music, finished the piece in a couple of weeks. and I thought, this is really what I want to do. This is really who I think I can be and make an impact and make a make a difference with this work.

And so I think that was really kind of like the turning point that I said, ā€œOK, aha.ā€ You know, it’s one of those aha moments, right? Where I thought, ā€œYep. OK, I can call myself a composer:

James Evans: That’s amazing. And now you’re a composer that also does a lot of work with documentaries.

You’ve been credited as a composer on several award-winning documentaries. Can you, A, explain that experience to me, but also explain your perception both on yourself and the work you do as a storyteller

Stella Sung: Yeah. So I’ve actually been really fortunate to hooked up with wonderful filmmakers One is Dr. Lisa Mills. And so I’ve been fortunate to work with her on her documentaries and also Aaron Hose. And Aaron is a graduate from our school. And I think at the time working actually in communications or in instructional research or something. And so I wrote music for his documentary film called Voices in the Clouds. So I’ve always had an interest in visual things that connect to the arts and to the visual film or so on. I think it’s probably, because my mom is an artist, as a painter. I always had paintings and visual things all around the house. So I’ve always been aware of that and I’ve always liked including multimedia stuff in my work as a composer. So film kind of just was natural.

And I think the challenge of writing music for documentaries particularly is really interesting because you’re helping to tell the story that’s already being told through the documentary subjects. The music has to support the action or the words or the mood but not interfere. We’re not there to create the big, landscape or the big score for these action types of things. It’s much more subtle in documentary films. I really enjoy that though. I really find that’s it’s a great way to get to know different subjects learn some new things. And I still love writing for (that) medium.

James Evans: I’m going to switch gears a little bit because I could talk about this forever,but I, I also want to get into this idea, not even this idea. I just want to understand, you’ve been with UCF for quite a while, for several years, many moons. And I want to walk through that. I want to understand, what was UCF at the time? What do you think of it now? That progression that we’ve had what are your thoughts on UCFā€™s journey and your entanglement with it, right? As somebody who’s been here for quite a while, you’ve seen us grow exponentially. And I’m sure that that’s an interesting, insightful perspective. And I’m very curious about your thoughts.

Stella Sung: Yeah, so I, started out at UCF as a fill-in for professors in the music department who were going on sabbaticals.

James Evans: Mm-hmm.

Stella Sung: And I, at the time, I was finishing up my degree at the ŗ£½ĒÖ±²„ of Texas at Austin. So I was, I’d done all the coursework and was ready to look for a job. But I was still working on my dissertation, just had to do my lecture and recitals. And I got a call from a pianist who I had studied privately with at the time, Gary Wolfe, and he was in the music department, and he was going on sabbatical. So I got a call and he said, ā€œOh, will you be interested in teaching?ā€ So, of course, (I say), ā€œSure, that’d be great.ā€ And then they also said, ā€œWell, and our music theory teacher and our class piano teacher, they’re going on sabbatical in the spring, so can you teach music theory and can you teach piano class?ā€ I said, ā€œSure.ā€ You know, I mean, when you’re young, you’ll just go for all the opportunities, right?

When I first got to UCF we were about 18,000. And there was like one, two fraternity houses. There was a McDonald’s and a Pizza Hut, and that was about it around, And there was really not a whole lot and ŗ£½ĒÖ±²„ Boulevard was just like two lanes. Alafaya was a two-lane, rough, paved road. And I thought, ā€œOh, I don’t know where I’m going, but I’m going to come out here and teach.ā€ So that’s where I started, and then everybody came back from sabbatical. And so, I went to Paris to work with a composer that I had studied with at Austin, and he was an American but lived in Paris, and I had always wanted to go to Europe and live in Europe, so I was able to do that.

And then I got a call and they said, ā€œWell, one of our musicology teachers is going to become an associate dean.ā€ And so the music theory teacher said, ā€œWell, I’ll do musicology, but I need somebody to help teach music theory.ā€ So I came back as a visiting instructor.

James Evans: Mm-hmm.

Stella Sung: And it became a tenure-earning line. I applied for the job. It was a competitive search. But I ultimately ended up with the job and I’ve been here at UCF ever since. It’s been a wonderful place. I will have to say one of the great things about UCF is it allowed, and it still allows, lots of room for exploration. It’s not tied to ā€” it’s not a 200-year-old university where all these, you know, traditions and so on are just sort of stuck there. And I, think for me, UCF was a perfect fit because I always like exploring new things. I always like to look at what else can we do. And so, I was in the music department and it was a great run while I was there. I did end up moving my tenure and professorship to, at the time, digital media. Partly because I wanted to explore some new things. And partly because it felt like it was a necessary change. So, again, you know, where life takes you to different paths and you just never really know.

And so I started working with our animation unit and fell in love about all of our animation students and the whole idea of marrying music to animation. And that was just a perfect fit for me.

James Evans: Yeah, absolutely. And now you’re the director of CREATE, which conducts multidisciplinary research around science and the arts. Can you give us more insight into that experience being the director, but also the work you’re doing there? What kind of impacts does that have?

Stella Sung: Sure. So create stands for the Center for Research and Education in Arts, Technology and Entertainment. And we are located at UCF Downtown. We’ve been there for about 17 years. So we’ve actually been there before UCF Downtown was established, but UCF had a building down there and so we were part of that.

We have our offices downtown. And I was asked to take over, create about 17 years ago. And at the time I really didn’t know what it was, but I knew it was down. So part of our emphasis has been to become a sort of outreach unit for our college and for UCF so that we can connect to the community, we can connect to our partners downtown and around in the city.

We do a lot of community outreach, and we were doing after school programs. We do summer camps, so we’re working with kids and high school students primarily to have a way for UCF folks to have a connection to the community where they might not normally have that. Because, you know, when we’re on our campus, we’re sort of in our little bubble world on the campus.

I think that it’s a good thing to be able to reach out to the community and find ways to connect to the community. Now what we do in our programming has been to use. And technology to try to train and give skills to students and members of our community to bring them another aspect of what art and technology can do in enriching your lives and to look at how art and technology can be sort of married together. Not so much separated, you know, we always sort of think of science and we always think of art, right? And, and they’re sort of like separate things. In my view, they’re actually much more closely related.

We do a similar process with sciences. It’s sometimes we’re experimenting, you know, sciences. I love working with scientists because I think their brains are kind of, they are exploratory. And we do that in the arts. We don’t know exactly what we’re going to end up with, but we had that same process.

So what we do at CREATE is to try to bring that concept into reality. For example, now we are working with high school students in animation and teaching animation. Well, animation involves math, it involves sciences, it involves geometry, it involves computer technology and then it also involves arts. It’s a visual language. It’s a storytelling language. So you know, that’s a beautiful medium to illustrate how science and art and technology all come together.

James Evans: Yeah. And what lessons have you learned over the past 17 years of working at CREATE? I mean, you’ve surely seen it grown. You’ve surely seen UCF Downtown become a thing.

Stella Sung: Yeah.

James Evans: Probably before we even having conversations about it. Right,

Stella Sung: Right.

James Evans: What lessons, what takeaways do you have from that experience and what are you looking to do in the future with that?

Stella Sung: iI’s an amazing opportunity, an amazing time to grasp all the things that are coming up. The technology, the ability to find new technologies and put those and use those in the arts, it’s absolutely tremendous. I’ve been doing work with VR and AR and with my colleagues in digital media actually. And I think that one of the projects that I’ve been doing is trying to find ways where VR and mixed reality can be used in a live concert setting. To have this opportunity and to be located downtown, where there’s a lot of stuff happening, where there’s community efforts, there are businesses like Electronic Arts, which is located now in downtown, and to be in that kind of mix it just is a really great time for UCF to be a part of all of that. It’s very exciting actually. It really is. I mean, we do a lot of great things on campus, but we also have things that are on that cutting edge when we’re not just siloed in our own areas here, but that we can actually be connecting to businesses and organizations outside of UCF.

James Evans: Can you walk us through that idea of partnership? How does that happen? How does partnership, how does collaboration, how does community engagement happen at CREATE? And, taking those things to the next level?

Stella Sung: One of our main emphasis is partnerships. And we’ve built a lot of great partnerships with Orlando Science Center, for example.

And in fact, we just had a meeting here recently. Their Otronicon event, which has been going on for, I think, 15 years now (started in 2006). They’re rebranding it as Spark Fest and they want actually to involve more UCF people. So I’ve been trying to sort of be a little catalyst to connecting them to as many UCF folks as we can.

It’s about a three, four day event and it brings anywhere from 12 to 13,000 people into the science center. it’s a wonderful opportunity for UCF to showcase all of our great initiatives that we have, the projects that we have, the departments we have. medical school, nursing, school engineering computer sciences, all these great things that can come down together.

So partnership is really important for us. A few years ago, CREATE received a Disney grant, one of those nice Disney grants in partnership with our local community organization called Page 15. And they work with kids and young adults in developing literacy skills. So they do poetry, writing, reading, all those kinds of literacy skills.

So we did a partnership and hosted several summer camps with Page 15. So again, you know, finding other ways where UCF can be a part of the lives of these people that we don’t necessarily normally reach out to. Part of our mission is to be able to say, ā€œHey, UCF is a place that you could be a part of, and we want to be a part of your life.ā€

And that’s what’s so wonderful about the work that we do. I think at CREATE we’re just we’re really about trying to bridge, to make bridges happen.

One of our current projects is we’re working with Continuing Education. And the state of Florida has now mandated that there’s a financial component that must be taught in all of the high schools, and that’ll start next fall. So, our instructional designer, Tracy Morrison, has been working on developing online courses. And so she’s working with Continuing Ed to deliver that content. So that’s another aspect. What we’re doing is, trying to find ways where we can help teachers teach students about financial literacy.

James Evans: That’s really interesting. So it’s not just about empowering students, obviously that’s, the crux of it. That’s the core of it. It’s also about empowering their instructors, empowering the community or, or our campus partners or our corporate partners to be able to engage with us in that mission.

That’s fascinating. I love it. So along that same thought, research and professorship and all of the wonderful things you’re doing, you’re also a Pegasus Professor and a trustee professor. cCn you give us the insight into that? What do those things mean and what do they mean for you?

Stella Sung: Sure. Well, I guess as professors are generally senior professors here at UCF, it’s a wonderful award and one, I think , (that) carries responsibility, as well as the trustees chair award.

But the Pegasus Professor award is I think one that we value highly because mostly it’s awarded to professors who have shown that they’ve reached a certain pinnacle in their careers and also have reached either recognition nationally or internationally for their work.

For research in my area, for example, is creative activities. But you know, we have several professors who are throughout the university in, various different fields. So those professorships are really meaningful and, again, carry responsibility. I look at the Pegasus Professorships as a responsibility to maintain a level of excellence, to be a role model for showing that. We keep working hard, keep your eye on the goals, work with our students, work with our staff and our colleagues, and try to make sure that we are pushing UCF and our goals forward. So that’s one aspect of what I believe the Pegasus Professorships do.

The trustees chair professorships don’t always come up. I’m very honored to have received that now twice and It carries with it a financial award part to one’s personal finances, but also part to the unit that you are in. So, that award can be used towards furthering a research project in my case, maybe creative projects or as I actually use our funds for CREATE and using it in various different ways to support our work.

Those two particular awards, I think, the university gives out to try to recognize professors that you know have reached a certain distinguished area in their work.

James Evans: It’s really important that we’re looking at the university, we’re looking at our faculty and empowering them, finding ways to give back to them and give them the resources and give them the recognition needed to continue to do the amazing things that they do. What kind of projects have you been able to do or further down been able to invest in, to create?

Stella Sung: Yeah. So the trustee’s professorship, but that’s the one we’re kind of talking about right now. [It] allows us a certain amount of financial support and people can use it in various different ways. And what I’ve been doing is, I used some of my money to support UCF Celebrates the Arts, which is a wonderful yearly event that we have downtown. Bringing the arts to downtown and giving opportunities for the orchestra, chorus, band, performing arts to be in the Dr. Phillips Center. And now in the new Steinmetz Hall. So for example, this past spring, we did my large-scale orchestra work called Oceania, and I was able to invite professors from UCF, our biology professors from UCF, Dr. (Kate) Mansfield and Dr. Linda Walters, to be a part of the panel as well as a senior scientist from the New England Aquarium Scott Krause. And so I had these scientists with me and also the filmmaker that did a film that went with my piece. So I was able to bring us all together and have a panel and where we discussed the problems of ocean noise pollution, which is what my piece is a little bit about and also the work that our scientists are doing. So for example Dr. (Kate) Mansfield who is a turtle specialist talked about her work with turtles and Dr. (Linda) Walters, who is our oyster specialist, she talked about oyster reefs and why those are important for us. And so we gave the audience a chance to say, ā€œWhat else?ā€ Not only [what] UCF professors do, but what are the concerns, the greater concerns for our environment? So I used part of my funding to invite these people over on the totally opposite spectrum. The next next project that we’re looking at is working with Keith Harrison, who is in the DeVos School. And he is very good friends with Reggie Saunders. So Mr. Saunders is the VP for Jordan, Nike brand. They’re all into kind of hip-hop artists. And so next year is the sort of 50th anniversary of hip-hop. So we would like to bring Mr. Saunders in as a guest speaker, and sort of figure out how we can marry hip-hop and sports, because there’s actually quite a big connection there.

So that’s another way that I plan to use some of our funding.

James Evans: That’s amazing. I want to give you the space and the time to kind of throw in a Celebrates the Arts ad here. OK. Because I think that’s great and I think Celebrates the Arts is one of UCFā€™s traditions that doesn’t get as much recognition as, you know, Spirit Splash, right? That’s a huge one everybody talks about. Lots of our athletic events gets a lot of attention. You know, Celebrate the Arts provides these opportunities not only for our performers to do their work and do their jobs and give back to their community, it also allows for these amazing collaborations and connections.

So I want to give you the space right here and now to kind of put in the middle of the podcast an ad about Celebrate the Arts, tell the audience about it, what are you excited about? And give us the information on it.

Stella Sung: Yeah. Happy to do that. It’s an amazing event that happens over a course of two weeks. It’s sort of the brainchild of our dean, Jeff Moore, who is a percussionist, a musician, but he put together this idea of having the Celebrates the Arts where we bring all of the arts, performing arts as well as visual arts, together to do this celebration. We go downtown and we set up our things.We set up our exhibits. We do the performances. There’s an amazing array of performances from the school of music and theater. So we have theater, we have orchestra, band, chorus, jazz band, all parts of the performing arts, and then we have our visual arts. So our artists, our painters will bring their paintings and they go on display. And then we also have our animation units. So our animation students and units get to show their films. So we also have screen.

It’s a huge array of things that you can go down and participate in. Most are very inexpensive tickets. And some are free and it’s a great place to bring family down to have a day or evening of enjoying a wonderful event.

This past spring, they did Shrek the Musical and it was great. It was in the Disney Hall. It was great. And then they did my orchestra piece as well as showcase other parts of the orchestra with Beethoven Symphony No. 6. And some animation that was done to that piece by our animation students.

And this is really a wonderful way to showcase all these things that UCF does. And I hope that as we move along, more people will come out more people from the community will come out and enjoy it and get to know some of the things that UCF is able to offer. It’s an amazing event. I hope that we can bring as many people down as possible.

James Evans: It absolutely is. I got to see Shrek last year and it was fantastic. Really.

Stella Sung: And these are student performers, they are Broadway-quality performers. I mean, they’re learning their craft, they’re learning their art. But in that process they really come to the top. It’s so impressive. It really is. And to see these young people giving their absolute 100% plus to performing is just a thrill.

James Evans: Absolutely right. Do we have a set month or set date already for this upcoming spring, or is that still in conversation?

Stella Sung: We do. I don’t remember the dates, but it’s usually in April. OK,

James Evans: Awesome. I’m really curious, are you looking into the future to be able to incorporate more of the STEAM and the connections, not only with your research, right?

I could very easily see in the next five to 10 years having a performance that includes VR, AR, MR into a Celebrates the Arts performance. Is that where you’re looking to do, where you kind of planning on going with that over, the course of the next few years?

Stella Sung: Yeah, so I, my personal belief is, technology is going to drive the future of the arts. I really believe that. I’ve already done some of this with my operas, which had digital projections, 3d animation in the digital set where the animation actually made the set come alive. And in Oceania we did a little bit of an experiment where I had a VR headsets, as well as the HoloLens, two headsets being used during the performance. So this was kind of a trial to see.

But my belief is that this is going to drive the next interactivity for live performances. It’ll take a little while, but I believe that our young people, and I believe the next generation of people, want to be engaged, want to be actively a part of any performance.

I can envision people bringing their own headsets, right? Being able to experience that either in MR or AR or VR and hearing the live music, seeing the live music and experiencing it in a different way. So with VR, of course, your headset is, you don’t see the things around you, but you can hear, you can hear the stuff going around you in the mixed reality. In the HoloLens, too, you can see everything that’s going on and. Basically holograms are being put forth for you. So this is a really cool thing because for example, what we did was in Oceania, we I worked with some of my colleagues in digital media, John Murray, Dr. Murray, and his students, and we developed a prototype. For example, whales that were swimming around in the, if you will, swimming around in the concert hall. But they were large life size. So as you’re sitting there, you’re hearing and seeing the orchestra, right? But you’re also seeing the superimposed layer of digital assets. And it just completely gives you a different experience of interactivity.

I truly believe that this is going to be the future for live performances and engaging people in a different way using technology.

James Evans: I couldn’t agree more. I’ve had the chance to talk to Peter (Weishar, director of UCFā€™s themed experience program) and his work with the themed experience program, and getting those students ready for the real world and providing a whole new a program that’s focused in on themed experiences. And most people, again, think theme parks, right? Which makes sense, but it’s well beyond that. It’s in your everyday life. And I’m so curious to see how technology is going to start to move. I mean, it already is in our everyday lives, but products like a HoloLens too, as people begin to use them for performances or for experiences regularly, right?

Like we already had Google try their smart glasses a couple years ago, right? So we’re obviously moving in that direction and I’m so intrigued by how we can not only set up spaces, per Peter’s episode, and create rooms and spaces and entire experiences built for human use. And providing and telling that story through the environment that you’re in, but also then bringing in a whole new environment, a virtual environment, right? That adds onto that.

I think that’s fascinating. As we’re moving in two directions as a university. Where we’re telling a story with the physical environment that’s here and we’re also telling a story with the rest of our senses.

What else are you seeing that’s not in the physical environment? What are you feeling that’s not in the physical environment? So I guess it’s not the rest of your senses, but it’s a second level. It’s more, what’s going on? And I think that’s fascinating.

Stella Sung: It is, it is. And you know, and I’ll make a plug for UCF, too, because we are blessed that we have all these wonderful technology areas here, in Orlando, businesses and companies that are here in Orlando. And it’s a great way to interface with those companies. We’re blessed with fantastic faculty and students who want to push that envelope. Who want to take that step and go forward in looking at ways in where we could create that third dimension between, audience and presenter.

Theme-park experience, for example, is really cool because in a theme park we have the theme-park reality. That is you’re in the park, but somebody else presented that reality to you. So the theme park makers are the sort of presenters, if you will. And then when you go to the theme park, you’re like the audience, but you step out of your audience mode and become interactive. And so you’ve created a third dimension, if you will, of an experience. So theme parks do this so well because they really know how to capture our imagination and our participation in a really active way, where we’re not really thinking about what we were. And we’re not really thinking about who made that necessarily, although Disney, of course, brands everything, right?

But it doesn’t matter because you’re so engrossed in it that you, you become something else. You go to a different experience and that’s why people love theme parks you get to a different place.

James Evans: Related to this, but not entirely to theme parks. I want to pick your brain about something. There’s a phrase, a word, whatever you want to call it, that I’ve been hearing recently, and I think you’re going to Ā have some good insight into this. Orlando is working towards becoming Meta City. Capital of the metaverse. We want to be the home, the hub of where the metaverse grows and shapes and forms and builds, and your work and your research.

And a lot of UCFā€™s work and research is at the crux of that development, right? How are we combining the human experience to this entirely new place that’s completely virtual? How are we bridging that gap where it’s not entirely virtual and people can move in and progress into that?

What are your thoughts on Orlando becoming and wanting to be Meta City, wanting to be capital of the metaverse? I just want to hear your thoughts on that.

Stella Sung: I personally think it can happen. I really do. I mean, Orlando is a place that is moving forward. It’s growing rapidly. It’s attracting new businesses, it’s attracting new companies, it’s attracting technology.

You know, our medical school, our nursing school, these things are involved with the human factors. They’re all growing. They’re busting at the seams, basically. So we have the opportunity to do this. We have the opportunity to be totally creative. Totally creative. And UCF has an opportunity to be a part of that in a really big way.

We’ve got it. We can do it. We have all the resources here to make that metaverse, you know, to be that hub, if you will, to attract our young people to attract the creatives as well as the technical people, as well as the engineers.

All these kinds of things combined, we’ve got the hugest, the greatest ability to do it. We just need to do it, we just need to step forward and we need creative people to think about it and be a part of it. We’ve got business who are ready to fund it. So I think we’ve got all kinds of possibilities and I would love to be a part of that.

James Evans: I’ve had the fortune of talking to several researchers and just being exposed to many more. And I’m constantly seeing work that’s pushing the edge of academia, pushing us forward in some very innovative and creative ways. And I just sit there in awe.

Stella Sung: I’m learning a part of it too.

James Evans: Exactly. You know, despite me being an accounting major and there’s not a lot of research going on in accounting, I don’t think, to see and be exposed to how much our academic units and our faculty are pushing forward their fields and pushing forward this region. It’s fascinating.

Stella Sung: It is. It’s a great time to be here and it’s a great time to be at UCF and we’ve got a huge a wonderful, wonderful future ahead of us. Our old slogan was Reach for the Stars, and I think we’re getting there.

James Evans: Oh, absolutely. What advice would you give to someone who wants to do what you do or even just succeed like you have?

Stella Sung: Just do the best work you possibly can every day.

The best thing that I try to do is when I come to work, when I work with our students, give 100%. That’s all you can actually do really, I think, is do your best work. Always keep a level of excellence in your forefront. Everything isn’t always going to be perfect, but you be flexible and learn and be ready to explore.

James Evans: I, as a student, engage and respond best to the teachers and the professors that are most engaged back, right? Are you doing something great that’s inspiring? How are you sharing it with your students and then pushing them, right? You were saying, ā€œThis is where I’m headed. This is what’s going on. This is what we’re doing. How are you going to be a part of that?ā€ I think presenting that challenge to students of, can you beat me? Can you match me? Can you put your energy in and provide something back? And can you do it for your community? I think those are really great questions that we need to be asking our students.

Stella Sung: Well, and it’s true that one of the greatest joys is when the student succeeds and exceeds the master. I have some wonderful students who have gone on to great careers who are out, out in LA as composers and they’re doing really, really well. They’re writing music for Netflix. They’re writing music for major commercials for the Super Bowl. I mean, these kinds of things that I didn’t do, and I’m glad that they are. It makes me really proud that I kind of helped in guiding them through their career paths. And that’s our job and that’s our passion is to say, ā€œOK, you know, I can show you what I know, but now you show me what you know.ā€

James Evans: I know that’s what I want when I become a parent, when I become a teacher, when I become somebody who’s a mentor to others. I want them to be able to stand on my shoulders and push farther than I ever even had the ability to dream of, right?

Stella Sung: Yes.

James Evans: That’s the goal.

Stella Sung: That is absolutely the goal.

James Evans: So last question. What’s one thing you are still hoping to do?

Stella Sung: Oh gosh, there’s still a lot out there that I’m hoping to do, but I think we’ve actually really covered this already I really want to explore how can we make the live concert, the live classical concert experience, more engaging, more interactive, more interesting.

One of the things that I really would love to see before I retire or whenever is seeing that technology married, seeing that technology being used in the concert hall and seeing the success of that and making sure that there’s still a future for live classical concerts.

James Evans: I want to thank you. I mean, this has been an amazing conversation. You’ve really given me some insight that I had no clue about, and you’ve explained so much more than I even had anticipated for the episode. It’s really been a pleasure.

Stella Sung: Well, thank you, James. It’s great to be here with you and thank you for your thoughtful and interesting questions.

James Evans: I want to reiterate my thanks to Dr. Sung for being on the show today. Her work and story shows that we can all be mentors, leaders, and life-long learners. As the world continues to be increasingly more digital, we have to reimagine how we tell stories and give future generations the tools to do so. We can also all take away a lesson of personal excellence. It’s no small feat to be a well-published and awarded composer.

Speaking of personal excellence, our next episode will be with Chris Clifford ā€™21, a UCF alum who was our first student be offered the highly selective Gates-Cambridge Scholarship ā€” but actually turned it down to follow another prestigious path. Chris now studies and researches at MIT as he is working to cure diabetes, and he shares why this is the best way for him to make a difference.

As always, if you’re doing something cool, whether that’s at UCF or somewhere you took UCF that we should know about, send us an email at socialmedia@ucf.edu and maybe we’ll see you on an episode in the future. Go Knights. Charge on!

Chris Clifford: My motto that I live by is always strive to be the dumbest person in the room. I think that is an amazing way to grow. A lot of people are scared of being in an environment like that, but I pursue environments like that because, if you’re the dumbest person in the room, there’s only one trajectory really.

Evans is a first-generation student and member of the . He is a junior majoring in accounting and minoring in computer science. ā€ÆHe is a former , orientation leader and resident assistant. Evans has also served within Student Government as a senator, fiscal committee chair, and Safety & Transportation coordinator. He currently serves as a member of the .

Here Evans shares more about what drew him to hosting the podcast and his goals for future episodes.

Transcript

James Evans: Hello and welcome back to Knights Do That. My name is James Evans, and Iā€™m your new host. I want to take a moment to thank our former host, Alex Cumming, for putting so much time and energy into making the podcast what it is today. I especially love the episodes with Associate Professor Claire Connolly Knox and CFO Gerald Hector. They both bring so much to the table in their respective fields. And how I was able to learn so much from listening to those episodes is a testament to this podcast. Good luck on all your endeavors, Alex.

As the new host of Knights Do That, I think it might be a good idea for yā€™all to get to know who I am. My name is James Evans and Iā€™m a first-generation college student from Callahan, Florida. Being from a rural town, I love to travel whenever I get the chance. From day trips to full on excursions, I relish every chance to explore our pale blue dot. Within the UCF community. It would be better to know me as a third-year accounting major within the Burnett Honors College.

Yā€™all are probably wondering what an accounting major is doing hosting a podcast, especially one focused on people and stories. The truth is I have a passion for stories. I believe storytelling is our greatest strength in asset because itā€™s so engaging and persuasive.

When I was an orientation leader. My favorite question to ask incoming students was what their favorite piece of media was. From books to albums, to art, I heard it all. I loved that question so much because the answer, no matter the medium, is some form of story. And I believe knowing someoneā€™s favorite story reveals their core being.

It wouldnā€™t be fair of me to tell you this without answering the question myself. My favorite movie is Ratatouille because I love animation, food and anything inspirational. I find a joy and motivation from the central premise that anyone can be anything they want to be. I grew up on a zip code where the employment rate was only 54%, and the amount of people in my extended family who held a college degree could be counted on one hand. Which brings me in my next point…

I am proud to say that Iā€™m a UCF Knight. I chose UCF because I believe in what we stand for. I was immediately drawn to the university the first time I stepped on campus. I remember walking around and feeling right at home. At one point during the ad hoc tour, my friend was giving me, I remember them showing me the John T. Washington Center. And then at the end of it, we saw the John C. Hitt Library. That side of the library at the time was being renovated. So my friend turned to me and said, ā€œYou should probably know that UCF stands for under construction forever.ā€

While the notion was presented to me with sarcasm and angst, I donā€™t carry it with me with those same feelings. I believe UCF does stand for under construction forever, but for all the good that idea represents. Every individual member of this institution, whether faculty staff, student or alum,, is unleashing their potential to make the world around them better.

Iā€™ve been surrounded by amazing and talented people at every point along my journey at this university. Iā€™m not only thankful for the people here, I am constantly inspired by their passion, their growth, their commitment to empowerment.

My purpose with hosting this podcast is to perpetuate that notion of making ourselves and the world around us better by sharing the stories of knights doing amazing things. From groundbreaking research to making an impact in their communities, every guest on the show will have an innovative and unique perspective on the challenges facing the world today. Furthermore, theyā€™ll have an equally important and insightful solution with global impact.

[Outro Music]

So… what can you expect from season three? Weā€™ll be sharing new episodes every other week, starting Aug. ust 15th with our first guest, Peter Weishar the brains behind UCFā€™s new MFA themed experience track. So… what can you expect from season three? We’ll be sharing new episodes every other week starting Aug. 15 with our first guest: Peter Weishar, the brains behind UCF’s new MFA themed experience track and Master’s of Science in Themed Experience.

Here’s a preview of that episode:

Peter Weishar: But what I tell my students is, ā€œYou’re the artist standing in front of the room and you’re presenting your great idea. And you’re doing your pitch and sitting in the chairs around you it’s going to be somebody from production, somebody from maintenance, somebody from engineering, hospitality, operations, all these different people around the table. And you have to understand enough about what they do to answer the most fundamental questions about your idea.”

James Evans: As always, if youā€™re doing something cool, whether thatā€™s at UCF or somewhere you took UCF that we should know about. Send us an email at socialmedia@ucf.edu, and maybe weā€™ll see you on an episode in the future. Go Knights, Charge on!

Produced by UCF, the podcast highlights students, faculty, staff, administrators and alumni who do incredible things on campus, in the community and around the globe.

Transcript

Deborah Beidel: I tell people we donā€™t need different treatments, we need to do treatment differently. And by doing treatment differently, we found we can be very successful. So the idea is having people give up two or three weeks in order to get a lot better. And we talk about that also as trying to break the stigma. So both for active duty personnel, veterans, and also our first responders, who have always been in the role of being the helper, turning around and asking for help is really different. But if we can start to think about treatment for post-traumatic stress disorder in the same way that we think about physical therapy, then we have a chance of breaking the stigma.

Alex Cumming: As many of you know, November is Veteransā€™ Month, but what you may not know is that UCF is home to UCF RESTORES a clinical research center here on campus that is dedicated to changing the way that PTSD is understood, diagnosed and treated. In this episode I had the honor of speaking with the centerā€™s Executive Director Debra Beidel. Debra shares her expertise in PTSD treatment, innovative treatments happening at UCF RESTORES, and how we can acknowledge and support veterans.

And before we get to the episode, I do want to share that we touch on topics of traumatic events, which may be triggering to veterans or survivors of sexual assault. Please keep that in mind, as we get into the episode.

Deborah Beidel: So back in the 1990s, I was working with a couple of colleagues and we were trying to figure out how to treat post-traumatic stress disorder for Vietnam veterans. And weā€™re starting to think about different treatments, but I was always sort of peripherally involved at that point. I was interested, but I was also doing other things. And then on Oct. 2, 2006, Carl Charles Roberts [IV] walked into a one-room school house in that community in [West] Nickel Mines and shot those girls in the head at point-blank range.

I was the psychologist at one of the hospitals where those girls were taken. And after that period of time, it was not only the horror of that but the resilience of that community. Like that night, the women from the community took food to the shooterā€™s widow and children. And that weekend more than 50% of the people who were at his funeral were from the community of those girls where he had so horribly injured and killed. And it really was that resiliency that was a turning point for me. It was that resiliency in the face of that horrible tragedy that made me decide this was where I was going to spend the rest of my career.

Alex Cumming: How early into your career were you at that point?

Deborah Beidel: I was pretty far along in my career. I got my degree in 1986, so itā€™s been a long time. I was almost 40, 30 years into it, but I really wanted to do something different and that was a good time. And it really was a motivator to think about how people who were so traumatized, for him to go in there, send all the boys home, line up all the girls and the oldest girl stood up and stood forward and said, ā€œShoot me first.ā€ She was trying to save time for the younger kids. And I thought that bravery, that courage in the face of that is something that I want to study and I want to be part of.

Alex Cumming: There are moments in your career, at all points it sounds, you never know how one incident can change your career, the trajectory of what you want to do, what you thought you were passionate about.

Deborah Beidel: Absolutely. It really was. If you had asked me when I started my career, was I going to end it running UCF RESTORES or specializing in post-traumatic stress disorder with veterans and first responders? I wouldā€™ve said “ā€No, absolutely not.ā€ But life has a way of showing you what you should do.

Alex Cumming: UCF RESTORES, and from my understanding that UCF RESTORES is a clinical research center here on campus, dedicated to changing the way that PTSD is understood and diagnosed and treated. Currently, you’re the executive director of UCF RESTORES. But how did you get started? How did UCF RESTORES come about?

Deborah Beidel: When I came down here to UCF, I thought that I was probably not going to do any more work with veteran because there wasnā€™t a hospital here then. There was a small outpatient clinic, but there wasnā€™t really a hospital and there werenā€™t a lot of people. So I thought, OK, well I’ll do something else.

And about maybe six, seven months after I was here, I got a call from the Army. They had seen a research study on PTSD with veterans that I had done up in Hershey, Pennsylvania. And they said, ā€œDo you think your treatment program would work with veterans from Iraq and Afghanistan?ā€ And I said, ā€œWell, I think itā€™ll work better because theyā€™re not 40 years of chronic post-traumatic stress disorder.ā€

The Vietnam veterans would say to me, ā€œBut doc if I get too much better, they might take away my disability payments and I havenā€™t worked in 40 years. Whoā€™s going to hire me? How am I going to live?ā€ And so I thought, well if you had people who were just coming back who werenā€™t on disability, didnā€™t have to worry about being unemployed, weā€™d have a much better chance. And so the woman from the army said to me, ā€œPut in a project, just put in the same project, but we want you to try it with younger veterans.ā€ And I said, ā€œSure.ā€ So we did. And thatā€™s how we got started.

And then the first year after we got started, we were doing kind of regular, what you might think of as once a week therapy. And I went back to the army to tell them about the program and the colonel said, ā€œItā€™s a good program.ā€ He said, ā€œBut itā€™s too long, youā€™re talking about 17 weeks. I canā€™t have active duty personnel out of active duty for 17 weeks. I need a shorter program.ā€ So Iā€™m known to have a smart mouth sometime and I said, ā€œWell if you give me more money, Iā€™ll give you a shorter program.ā€ And he said, ā€œOK.ā€ I never got grant money that quickly before, but we did. And thatā€™s how we started our intensive outpatient program, was really to turn the tables on PTSD and try and treat it in a way no one had really thought about.

Alex Cumming: UCF draws so many people from so many backgrounds as has been expressed many times by people outside of myself. Veterans are a big part of UCFā€™s community and we have a huge ROTC center. So the importance that this means to Central Florida, which has such a huge military presence, to show thereā€™s outreach and thereā€™s possibilities for growth.

Deborah Beidel: I talk about it as hope. When people have experienced these types of traumatic events, they feel changed. And I tell people if thereā€™s one thing I want people to know is that yes, trauma changes you forever. And I say to them, ā€œIf anyone tells you they can erase that memory, run in the opposite direction because those types of memories canā€™t be erased.ā€

Think about, youā€™re going along and thereā€™s suddenly something that looked like trash on the side of a road is an IED and people who are with you in a Humvee now are so horribly injured or maybe even killed. Thereā€™s no way youā€™re ever going to forget that but it doesnā€™t mean that you have to be changed negatively forever. Thereā€™s ways of taking on that trauma, ways of learning how to get over it, that then allow you to go on and do something good. If you think about thatā€™s really what we think about when we talk about people whoā€™ve experienced these traumatic events. You take John Walsh, for example, after his son Adam was a horribly killed and what heā€™s done the rest of his life. You take the Parkland kids, they started a movement. You take the women from the community in [West] Nickle Mines who could go and forgive that man for what he did. Itā€™s those kinds of things that we sometimes talk about as post-traumatic growth. And I think thatā€™s something that we have to hold on to and we have to help people learn that thereā€™s a way of something coming out of a horrible event.

Alex Cumming: Post-traumatic growth. Thatā€™s a phrase Iā€™d never heard before, but I think thatā€™s the word I was looking for.

Deborah Beidel: Yeah. We saw it even after Surfside. People who wanted to do something and were looking for a way to take that sort of negative event and do something with it that would be positive. So what they were doing was taking something and saying, ā€œLet me make something good come from this.ā€

Alex Cumming: Right. Along with being the executive director of UCF RESTORES, youā€™re also a Trustee C hair and a Pegasus Professor of Psychology and Medical Education. Let me ask you what drives you in your work?

Deborah Beidel: Itā€™s really the need to discover and try and make positive change in some way. Throughout my career, whether itā€™s been with post-traumatic stress disorder or social anxiety disorder in children, itā€™s always been about what can I discover? What can I learn? And then what can I do with what Iā€™ve learned to make the world a better place? And if we can make the world a better place in the community where we live, then that has ripples. And those kids can go out ā€” I had one little boy I worked with a long time ago who developed asthma, but no one told him he had asthma. But he would be short of breath and he thought he was going to die and no one would tell him what was going on at first. And so he started refusing to go to school. He started refusing to a lot of things cause he didnā€™t want to be away from his mom in case he started to die. And so, we worked with him and I always say thatā€™s the only kid that ever worked with that wanted to go to school rather than skip school and come see me. And he ended up going through the military academy at West Point. Heā€™s had a career in government. And, Iā€™m thinking from a little boy who may never have graduated from school because he would not go to someone who now is making such a big impact in the world and the fact that I could help him, I donā€™t take full credit for it, but the fact that I could help him do what he always wanted to do is what keeps me going.

Alex Cumming: That reemphasizes your point of hope, what you were saying there. So many of these people that have served overseas to keep ourselves safe, they can come back here and have these experiences that they might not recognize are affecting them so deeply. They help us so much and what their service means to us. What we can do is to make sure that their life back here in the states is the easiest transition?

Deborah Beidel: I think itā€™s that. I think itā€™s also valued. Iā€™m old enough to remember how veterans were treated after the Vietnam War and the difference between that and the way we treat veterans now is really very stark, and thankfully much, much better. I think the fact that we now value what they do and what they did and keeping us safe ā€” I always say to veterans, “You took an oath that you would lay down your life so that I could live back here, do whatever I want to do.ā€ To me, thatā€™s the most amazing thing about this, is that someone that I donā€™t even know will put his life on the line for me and for us. And I donā€™t think we can ever forget that nor should we.

Alex Cumming: No. Speaking of the work that you do, I read that 66% of participants with combat-related PTSD and 76% of first responders no longer meet the diagnostic criteria for PTSD following treatment at UCF RESTORES. Those are some pretty impressive statistics. And thatā€™s a real testament to you and the work that your team does here. What do you think has made UCF RESTORES so successful in helping the individuals in this community?

Deborah Beidel: I think itā€™s really a testament to my staff. I often say Iā€™m the one that talks about UCF RESTORES, but theyā€™re the ones that really make it happen. Theyā€™re the ones that do the work every day. I think a couple of reasons is that UCF is a place where you can do lots of things. Weā€™re such a young university that we can come up with these ideas and nobody says,ā€Well Deborah, we didnā€™t do it that way in 1865.ā€ So we can come up with new thoughts and new ideas. And I think that’s the first thing that we can do that we do here.

I think the second thing is that weā€™re all driven in my clinic by science and by evidence. So we never want to say, ā€œWell, youā€™ve been coming here for 12 weeks, so you should be better.ā€ And because we are committed to measuring success, and when I say measuring success itā€™s really the success that the patient has. But we also look at it, if things arenā€™t going well, what are we doing wrong? Not the patient is guilty of transference or resisting treatment. We think about why isnā€™t this working? What are we doing wrong and how do we need to change? And I think thatā€™s really some of the success we have. What I tell people is when the statistician ran the data for the first time and told me that number, I made him go run it again because I didnā€™t believe it myself.

But I think the fact that we can do things because my treatment program would not work in the VA, I donā€™t believe, because the VA would not allow me to see a smaller number of patients for two sessions a day for three weeks straight. Because they would say, ā€œWell you know, youā€™re not treating enough people, weā€™ve got to get all these other people in for a session as well.ā€ Rather than taking a chance on doing something differently. So I tell people we donā€™t need different treatments, we need to do treatment differently. And by doing treatment differently, we found we can be very successful. So the idea is having people give up two or three weeks in order to get a lot better.

And we talk about that also as trying to break the stigma, both for active duty personnel veterans, and also our first responders, who have always been in the role of being the helper, turning around and asking for help is really different. But if we can start to think about treatment for post-traumatic stress disorder in the same way that we think about physical therapy, then we have a chance of breaking the stigma.

If your leg is broken, you have to go to physical therapy after you get out of the cast. Right? So if you have a stress injury, which is what we think of as post-traumatic stress disorder, if you have that stress injury, you need to go get it taken care of soon, go back and do it. And if we can change that stigma, I think then we can give people more help.

Alex Cumming: Iā€™d like to ask. What types of treatments are you doing differently? I heard mentioned about some virtual reality treatments.

Deborah Beidel: We do. The treatment that works the best for post-traumatic stress disorder is called exposure therapy. And basically you can think about exposure therapy as if you are afraid of a dog. How would you get over your fear of a dog? Most people would say, ā€œWell, Iā€™ve got to be around a dog.ā€ Yes. But if your post-traumatic stress disorder has resulted from an IED explosion, for example, I canā€™t set off an IED explosion here, nor would I want to. So the only other way I might be able to do exposure therapy is I could ask you to imagine it. But I canā€™t control what your imagined because I could be telling you to think about this horrific thing and you could be thinking about puppies for all I know. With virtual reality, we can bridge that gap. I can expose you to the sights, the sounds, and even the smells that were part of that event that has now created your fear. And by doing that, I can get you in touch with what we call triggers, those things that reactivate your anxiety. One example is, you can think about diesel fuel. A lot of veterans who came back said that anytime they would smell diesel fuel to gas station, they would then have this flashback to this IED explosion that happened in Iraq or Afghanistan and their buddies who were horribly injured or killed. So what we need to do is teach your brain that just because you’re smelling diesel fuel, it doesnā€™t mean that your buddies have again been injured or killed. That happened once, but it doesnā€™t happen every time. So I like to explain it to people by telling them to think about a really scary movie that you saw. For me, it was The Exorcist. You may go see it again and it still scares you. But then by about the 10^th Ā time youā€™ve seen it, which would be like your 10^th Ā exposure therapy session, you go yeah, “Yeah, yeah Linda Blairā€™s headā€™s going to spin around.ā€ The bad thing, the thing that scared you at first, itā€™s still happening, but youā€™re not scared anymore because youā€™ve learned that itā€™s not going to happen. And this is what we do in exposure therapy. And the virtual reality helps us get there because smells in particular, smells are hard to imagine, but smells and the memories that go with them are very powerful and very emotional memories. Itā€™s a short run, hereā€™s the neuroscience part. Itā€™s a short run from the olfactory bulb in your nose to whatā€™s called the hippocampus and the limbic center in your brain. It goes straight there. Thereā€™s no rerouting through the cortex or anything like that. And it makes those memories extremely powerful and therefore theyā€™re extremely traumatic.

Alex Cumming: I havenā€™t even thought about it that way. Thatā€™s super interesting. This technology that’s so new and on the cusp of developing in such grand ways to assist in the wellbeing of these veterans, itā€™s lovely to hear.

Deborah Beidel: Itā€™s really good. We find itā€™s not the only thing thatā€™s really helpful though. We also have a group therapy. Thatā€™s part of this whole treatment package that we do. And that works on things like sleep hygiene because veterans and even first responders who are suffering from post-traumatic stress disorder sometimes only sleep two or three hours a night. So helping them get better sleep, helping them decrease their anger, helping them think about the horrible things that happen, the traumas. And a lot of times veterans will say, ā€œIt was all my fault.ā€ Theyā€™ll say, ā€œI had to shoot that little girl.ā€ And when you talk to them about why, ā€œWell because that little girl was loaded with explosives and some adult way out of range sent that little girl toward our troops with the idea of killing and maiming our troops and that little girl.ā€ And so shooting that little girl, you saved everyone else, and it wasnā€™t your fault she was sent that way.

So helping people process through these traumatic events and how much they’re really responsible for is a big part of what we do. Itā€™s a part that exposure therapy doesnā€™t take care of. And thatā€™s what I mean when I said always looking at the treatment and looking at the outcome and how can we make it better?

For me, 66% of veterans no longer meeting diagnostic criteria is good. The rest are better, but theyā€™re still struggling. And so my mind always goes to that other 34%. What is it? What am I not doing right? Whatā€™s not going right there that we need to be able to help them?

Alex Cumming: One thing to think about that gives me a lot of optimism is there are people who are working on those niche details with organizations, like UCF RESTORES, and continuing to do such amazing work. As long as the amazing work continues, more people are going to come that want to do more amazing work to focus in on those niche aspects of life that an individual suffering with PTSD might have, such a difficult time expressing or overcoming. And there could be somebody who, if everybodyā€™s working on these small parts that come together to make the 66% even better.

Deborah Beidel: Yeah. We had a World War II veteran who came to us and asked for treatment and our grant funding at that time didnā€™t allow for that. And Iā€™m like, I donā€™t care. Weā€™ll treat them anyway, weā€™ll figure it out later. And we talked to him and heā€™s like, ā€œI still think thereā€™s things I can do, but this is getting in the way.ā€ And so we treated him and he got a lot better, and again itā€™s that hope that people have.

Alex Cumming: And you find that the sooner you can work with somebody the better you have of assisting their livelihood?

Deborah Beidel: I think so because their daily functioning hasnā€™t been so impaired and people get to the point where they really think they arenā€™t useful anymore. We had one woman who was sexually assaulted in the military 30 some years ago. She really hadn;t been able to find treatment that worked and wasnā€™t able to hold a job because of the trauma. And when people come to our clinic, even though I donā€™t do the treatment anymore, I always introduce myself to the people who are waiting in the lobby because I want them to know whoā€™s in charge. And I want them to know if theyā€™re struggling, if somethingā€™s going wrong in my clinic, I want to know about it. Not to blame people, but to fix it. And so on her last day of treatment, she saw me and she grabbed my arm and she said, ā€œDr. Beidel, I just want to tell you one thing.ā€ And I said, ā€œWhat?ā€ She said, ā€œYou gave me my life back.ā€ And I said, ā€œI am so sorry it took 30 years.ā€ And she said, ā€œDon’t you be sorry, you gave me the rest of my life.ā€

And thatā€™s why my staff and I get up every single morning.

Alex Cumming: Thatā€™s beautiful. And I want to talk about that. You and your team work so hard to bring in as many people as possible. You have veterans active duty, military personnel, first responders, as you said, survivors of sexual assault and survivors of mass shooter.

I want to hear some more about the fulfillment those efforts bring to you and the UCF RESTORES team.

Deborah Beidel: I think we celebrate with the people that we work with. We celebrate their triumphs and we know they do the hard work, right? Because theyā€™re the ones that have to go back into that trauma. Theyā€™re the ones that have to experience it. Theyā€™re the ones that have to leave their families for three weeks and come for treatment. But the fact they can improve and we can send them home different than they came is what makes all of us get up in the morning. And itā€™s funny because sometimes when we have new therapists come, they donā€™t know the treatments that we do. And theyā€™re a little suspicious at times because they donā€™t think this is gonna really work. And time and again Iā€™ve seen clinicians who started off very skeptical, where Iā€™ll ask them to do a visit because we have lots of people who want to come and see the clinic and want to see the VR. Iā€™ve heard them go, ā€œI didnā€™t believe this at first, but this treatment really works.ā€ And we can see the change and I think thatā€™s what it is that as a team we know weā€™re making an impact and I think that is so important. And we just keep going. When the first grant was ending we didnā€™t know what we were going to do because there we were running out of money and we just looked at each other. We put this whole thing together. We started this, we just have to keep going, we just got to do it. And so we let people know what was going on. Weā€™d let them know the success we had. And weā€™ve been able through state funding and through very generous donors to keep this going.

Itā€™s amazing the number of people who will give money. And there are some people who get big amounts, but itā€™s the people who give us $5, $10. Iā€™m so thankful for those people as well, who believe in us and who give what they can so we can continue to help others.

Alex Cumming: Thatā€™s fantastic. And all I have to say about that is how wonderful. I want to ask you now, whatā€™s something that you would like veterans or people who know veterans to be aware of about PTSD and receiving treatment?

Deborah Beidel: The one thing I want them to know is that it takes a lot of courage to face your fears. Doing this type of therapy is not always the easiest thing, as I said, going back there. And when we do the therapy we go back to everything that happened. So we donā€™t gloss it over. We donā€™t say, ā€œAnd then it was an IED explosion and people died.ā€ Yeah, no. We have to go back and talk about what it is exactly that they saw and who that was and what it looked like.

So it takes a lot of courage to do that. But itā€™s, like I said before, trauma changes you forever. There are traumas that you should not just be able to walk away from. First responders will often say well, ā€œThe old guys say, ā€˜Suck it up, buttercup,ā€™ or ā€˜Just stuff it.ā€™ ā€ But a lifetime of witnessing those types of traumatic events, both for our veterans and also for our first responders ā€” think about it, a first responders job is to respond to trauma, right? We donā€™t call them when weā€™re having a good day. We call them when something really bad is going on. So thatā€™s what they see every single day. And so itā€™s time that we all stop thinking that you should just be able to shrug it off. And itā€™s time that we all just acknowledged that people who have post-traumatic stress disorder are not faking it. The things that theyā€™ve seen that, going inside a school where people have been killed, elementary school students at Sandy Hook, teenagers down at Parkland. All the people who were shot and killed at the Pulse nightclub, no one should be able to just look at that and go, ā€œWell, just another Thursday.ā€

So I want people to know that we understand what it is theyā€™ve been through. And weā€™re here to help and weā€™re not going to be afraid. I get calls sometimes from first responders who say, ā€œMy therapist fired me.ā€ What do you mean? She said, ā€œIā€™m traumatizing her more than sheā€™s able to help me and she fired me. See, Iā€™m broken.ā€ And I say, ā€œCome to us because weā€™re not afraid. Weā€™ll hear those things and weā€™ll work with you.ā€ And we do.

Alex Cumming: The bravery abroad coming to the bravery at home to face what youā€™ve experienced and that people like yourself and your team are here to work with these people and not show them to the door. To keep them and to work with them. Itā€™s outstanding. Whatā€™s some advice you would give to somebody who wants to do what you do?

Deborah Beidel: I think do what you love and love what you do. I think that I couldnā€™t do this if I wasnā€™t part of a team too, because we all have days where weā€™re like, ā€œYou got to take care of this. I got to step back for a few minutes and take care of myself.ā€ But I think if you do what you love, then itā€™s not work.

People often say to me, ā€œWhen are you going to slow down now? When are you going to retire?ā€ And I say, ā€œWhen it stops being something thatā€™s fun, itā€™s something that I love. When coming to UCF campus becomes a chore and not the beginning of my day then itā€™s time to move on and do something else.ā€

So find what it is that makes your heart sing and do that.

Alex Cumming: I love the sound of that. I mean, how could you get tired of UCFā€™s beautiful campus?

Deborah Beidel: Itā€™s amazing here. Itā€™s true.

Alex Cumming: Itā€™s beautiful here. And whatā€™s one thing that youā€™re still hoping to do both on a personal and a professional level?

Deborah Beidel: On a professional level, what I want to do is to make sure that UCF RESTORES will be self-sustaining because right now weā€™re still in the position of crossing our fingers and hoping that the state legislature is going to see what weā€™re doing and keep funding us to keep doing it. So my goal is I want us to not have to cross our fingers every year. I want us to have a base thatā€™s self-sustaining so that weā€™ll be able to continue to do the work and focus our attention. New and better treatments rather than making sure that thereā€™s enough money to pay next month bills.

On a personal note, Iā€™m also sort of looking for what I call my third chapter in life. My first chapter was getting ready to do my career. My second chapter has been my career. And then the third chapter, what comes after that when they finally make me retire because Iā€™m doddering around or something. When they finally make me leave, what is it I’m going to do with that part?

So that’s what Iā€™m thinking about.

Alex Cumming: Well, Iā€™m so excited to see in here what that third chapter becomes for yourself. Iā€™ll conclude with this. How can people inside and outside the UCF community help support UCF RESTORES?

Deborah Beidel: They can go to our . They can even more than that, tell other people about what theyā€™ve heard here today and what weā€™re doing and make sure that anyone they know who’s suffering from PTSD gives us a call.

We do have resources. People often think we just treat students at UCF. And we donā€™t. We donā€™t even just treat people in Central Florida or Florida. We treat people throughout the nation who come to us. I just want people to know that our doors are open, that theyā€™re going to stay open. And that weā€™re here.

Alex Cumming: Well Deborah, I want to say thank you so much for this super insightful conversation. I learned a lot about what goes on for those who have served and how we can at home help serve them. So thank you for this conversation. I really enjoyed it.

Deborah Beidel: Thank you for the opportunity. I enjoyed it as well.

Alex Cumming: Hey everybody. Thanks for listening. Iā€™ll see you on the next episode of Kights Do That, where Iā€™ll be speaking with epidemiologist Elena Cyrus from UCF College of Medicine to discuss public health and COVID-19 vaccines. As we approach the one-year mark since the vaccines were granted emergency approval.

If youā€™re doing something cool, whether that’s at UCF or somewhere you took UCF that we should know about, send us an email@socialmediaatucf.edu, and maybe we’ll see you on an episode in the future. Go Knights and Charge On.

Produced by UCF, the podcast highlights students, faculty, staff, administrators and alumni who do incredible things on campus, in the community and around the globe.

Transcript

Annette Khaled: We need to do research to better understand what happens when we donā€™t catch cancer early, when a patient now has metastatic cancer that has spread, and can we develop better ways of helping these patients.

Because thatā€™s where death occurs. Death and breast cancer are linked to the cancer spreading. So, understanding that process is essential for research.

Alex Cumming: Hey Knight Nation, what an interesting and enlightening conversation that I got to have with Dr. Annette Khaled from UCFā€™s College of Medicine. Dr. Khaled is the head of the Division of Cancer Research at UCF and has been recognized for her breast cancer research specifically in breast cancer metastases. In todayā€™s episode, we speak about the personal experiences that sheā€™s had that drive the passion for her work, collaborative culture of teamwork, optimism, and humanity here at UCF, and some of the biggest mysteries of breast cancer that weā€™re still trying to solve. Letā€™s jump into.

So to begin, how did your interest with medicine, specifically working with breast cancer, develop?

Annette Khaled: Yeah, thatā€™s a great question.

So my background ā€” Iā€™m a basic scientist. I really donā€™t work directly in medicine ā€” I ask those basic biology questions. Why do things happen? Years back, I was working to understand how cells die. What causes a cell to die when itā€™s happily growing and suddenly all its growth signals go? Whatā€™s happening inside of that cell? And it really was in the process of understanding the molecular events that were happening in these dying cells that led us to discover what could potentially be a therapeutic for cancer. And thatā€™s how we ended up now jumping into breast cancer and really working on both a therapeutic and a diagnostic for breast cancer. Moving from those basic discoveries to some application in medicine.

Alex Cumming: Wow. How cool?

So as of this year, the World Health Organization has found that breast cancer is the most common cancer globally. Can you share with me some of the importance of early screenings for breast cancer, as well as the need for continuous research of the disease?

Annette Khaled: Both those aspects are tied together. So early screening – cannot emphasize enough the importance. Any cancer, especially breast cancer, if you find it early, when itā€™s still inside the breast, it’s still localized to one place in the breast, itā€™s much easier to treat. You can remove it surgically. You can treat it, and outcomes are like 90% or 99% survival. So early screening is essential.

And then, why do we have to do research? Well unfortunately, for some people, they donā€™t catch it early. Sometimes they catch it when itā€™s already showing symptoms and spreading. It may be in the liver, it may be in the brain and the bones. And at that point we donā€™t have enough of an understanding about how that happened, why that happened. So we need to do research to better understand what happens when we donā€™t catch it early, when a patient now has metastatic cancer that has spread. And then can we develop better ways of helping these patients. Because thatā€™s when death occurs. Death and breast cancer are linked to that cancer spreading. So understanding that process is essential for research.

Alex Cumming: Are there things you can notice within somebody that maybe they should say to themselves, ā€œI should get checked because Iā€™m having this symptom or Iā€™m feeling this sort of lump or I am just feeling off.ā€

Annette Khaled: Cancer is hidden. Cancer is your own body. Itā€™s your own tissues, doing bad stuff to you. And so itā€™s really hard to wait for symptoms. Thatā€™s why screening is much more important. You should be screening yourself. And thereā€™s guidelines, you should be screening by a certain age, by a certain risk factors.

You can do genetic testing, but itā€™s only a portion of cancers that are linked to a genetic outcome. So from my perspective, and itā€™s my own personal opinion, I think early screening is the best way. Get your mammograms every year. When youā€™re due, get your mammograms. Donā€™t wait for the symptoms because sometimes when the symptoms show up, itā€™s too late.

Alex Cumming: Thatā€™s good to be proactive instead of being forced to be reactive, sort of getting ahead of the curve.

Annette Khaled: Exactly.

Alex Cumming: What youā€™re saying it sounds as though a lot of people are forced to enter that reactive phase due to maybe outside circumstances that prevented them from being proactive on the situation. And when youā€™re in that reactive phase, it sounds like you have go all in on focusing on how can I give myself the best opportunity to treat this. And it sounds like from what youā€™re saying is that a lot of people donā€™t go into this alone. They have these circles in these groups that support them and help them along the way.

And as mentioned, breast cancer is one of the most common cancers found globally, support to know that youā€™re not alone in this situation, you find thatā€™s an important ā€”

Annette Khaled: And not to be ā€” itā€™s scary, right? You get a cancer diagnosis. I have cancer. ā€œWhat did I do? Why has this happened to me? Did I do something?ā€ Disease just happens sometimes. And having support, having an understanding that there are great therapies out there. The survival is so much better now than it was in the past for breast cancer. Thereā€™s lots of treatment options and just get the support you need. Youā€™re not doing this alone. We have great support systems for breast cancer. So Iā€™m glad you said that. We can do things if you have, unfortunately, that cancer diagnosis. There are many avenues available.

Alex Cumming: My grandmother is a breast cancer survivor, so breast cancer awareness is a very personal topic for me. Of course she had it, Iā€™m so thankful that she survived, beat it. I was younger, so I wasnā€™t fully able to grasp how it affects somebodyā€™s body, but I saw firsthand how it affects the lives of my own personal family and herself. Iā€™m so thankful that she lives in Florida, so weā€™re able to visit her and to be there for her in this time. And I mean, thereā€™s just this weight that comes off of just this collective of people when we found out that she had overcome it.

Annette Khaled: Itā€™s beating it that gives you that, ā€œWow, this is not the end of my life. This is something that happened along my life.ā€ And thatā€™s what drives the research as well, as being able to advance that. Hopefully to the point where your grandkids will no longer see cancer as a threat. Cancer happens, thereā€™s treatments. It goes away, weā€™re done. And hopefully take that threat from our lives.

Alex Cumming: When my grandmother was affected by it, she was in, I believe, late 60s, early 70s. And when she beat it she was in her mid, I believe, mid-70s. So, we have this joke, nothingā€™s going to keep her down. Nothingā€™s going to stop her from beating breast cancer in her 70s. It was a really just something that you donā€™t forget. You donā€™t forget that period of your life, where it was in the back of your head. We were like, ā€œThis could be just any day, this could happen.ā€

Annette Khaled: So true.

Alex Cumming: So to transition from that, and that you spent nearly a decade studying ways to inhibit breast cancer metastases, which happens when cancer spreads to all other parts of the body. What have been some of the most important discoveries that youā€™ve found?

Annette Khaled: I think the most important discovery we found, I was telling you earlier that we were studying this death pathway of cells and came up with a therapeutic. Trying to understand how, why the therapeutic was killing, really led us to discover a protein that hadnā€™t ever been associated with cancer before. And itā€™s a protein that helps other proteins fold – basically to get the right three-dimensional shape. Proteins have three-dimensional functionalities and so this protein that we found that our therapeutic was targeting was involved in this folding process. That had never been associated with cancer, and especially with metastatic cancer, like you said, the cancer that spread throughout the body. Really finding how this protein was working, how it was contributing to cancer spreading Ā – that has been probably one of the best discoveries that we have made in the last few years and really drives our research now.

Alex Cumming: Seeing that thereā€™ss these links between parts of the body and how they react when cancer is discovered in the body, is that what you’re saying?

Annette Khaled: Yes. So you think about cancer when itā€™s inside the breast, when itā€™s localized, has certain needs, right? , but once the cancer leaves its home in the breast and it travels and it goes through the blood. I mean, the stresses in the blood are horrendous. Most cancer cells die when they hit the bloodstream. But if they do survive, and those that survive need different survival factors than they did when they were in the home, in the breast. And then think of that, they have to now land in a new place, like they end up in the liver and the liver is very different from the breast, and itā€™s very different from the blood. They have to learn to adapt to that new environment. So the protein that weā€™ve been studying, we think helps those cancer cells do exactly that ā€” survive while theyā€™re in the bloodstream, survive when they get to the new site in the liver to grow and colonize again.

Thatā€™s why itā€™s of interest to us. Because if what weā€™re discovering is true, then we do have a really great target as a therapeutic target for these types of metastatic cancers.

Alex Cumming: We spoke about the community aspect of this. Do you find the mental well-being of a patient can be akin to the medical wellbeing?

Annette Khaled: Oh, that is so true. I think just having hope. And I think thatā€™s part of. I mean I really enjoy interacting and talking, like I am today with you, talking to anybody who interested in what we do. Because I think it gives people hope to know that my laboratory and all the other people in the cancer division, weā€™re all working hard on trying to find cures for cancer ā€” that we have their back. Weā€™re doing this because we want to be able to give them hope that maybe we canā€™t cure cancer today, but weā€™re working hard to find new discoveries that will lead to new treatments for cancer in the future.

Alex Cumming: I love what youā€™re saying about the hope and the optimism and to know every day students are waking up and going to places like UCF, where their focus is cancer research. And that thereā€™s this generation of students worldwide who are working, again individual types of cancer, but that every day students are going and that cancer research departments are still prominent and are funded and are in a vital aspect of health departments at universities.

Annette Khaled: I love that you said that because thatā€™s so true. Sometimes you forget because youā€™re taking classes and youā€™ve got deadlines and youā€™ve got to write your papers and your dissertation or whatever. But at the end of the day, what youā€™re doing is bringing hope to people.

Itā€™s doing research thatā€™s going to lead to new advances that one day, it may take five years, it may take 10 years, 20 years ,who knows how much it takes, but that someday you can say, ā€œI was part of that,ā€ or ā€œI was there when that happened, I was contributing to that process.ā€

Alex Cumming: Whatā€™s so nice, and this goes to most, all forms of medicine, is that a lot of these kids are doing it between the ages of 18 to [when they become] doctor, maybe mid-to-late 20s.

Annette Khaled: Or early 20s. Yeah.

Alex Cumming: Have their whole lives to work, to develop all these various research and treatments and itā€™s so cool. And to repeat what you said, hope, optimism.

On top of all your own research and your duties as a tenured professor, youā€™re also the head of the Division of Cancer Research here at UCF. Whatā€™s it like to oversee such an important division?

Annette Khaled: Oh thatā€™s a lot to say in one sentence. I really enjoy working with people and being part of helping to lead the cancer division. Thereā€™s about, I want to say 11 or 12 researchers that fall under that division. It’s part of what I do every day. Itā€™s not separate. I do my own research, but I also have that eye on the division as a whole to bring them together. So it really integrates very well with my current duties. I donā€™t see it as a separate thing, but it really falls alongside the things that I do every day. I teach students, I teach classes, I run my own lab. But part of that process is also keeping that global idea of how I can help my fellow colleagues in the cancer division also be successful. And so itā€™s all aligned together.

Alex Cumming: That you have to manage and understand whatā€™s going on with everybody outside of yourself, but then also focusing on your own work, I can imagine thatā€™s a lot to juggle at some times.

Annette Khaled: Well, like I said, it happens in parallel. Weā€™re very collaborative. And so, as I said, itā€™s not really more work for me. It just aligns with the work that I currently do. The success in my lab extends to the division and the division successes feed back into mine. Itā€™s become like a synergy. Weā€™re all in it together. One personā€™s success is everybodyā€™s success.

Alex Cumming: I love that. I imagine in a cancer research department egos are probably set aside and thereā€™s not this competitive drive because one personā€™s success is everybodyā€™s success.

I mean, in my own theatrical experience, yeah thereā€™s egos every now and then. But itā€™s like, if youā€™re good for the show and the show was good, thatā€™s on everybody.

Annette Khaled: Yeah, weā€™re a team. Ā Everybodyā€™s doing their research and their thing, but cancer is very collaborative. Itā€™s a field where you really lean a lot on each other. Everybodyā€™s got an expertise, I donā€™t have to be the expert of every single thing. I can go to my colleagues and say, ā€œI want to do this experiment youā€™ve done it in your lab. Can you help me do it in mine?ā€ And this is, the ideal situation youā€™ve got this great team of folks that all have that joint vision of, yeah, weā€™re going to cure cancer one day. Not today, maybe, but down the road thatā€™s our very ambitious goal. But weā€™ll help each other today to do the things that we need to do.

Alex Cumming: It sounds like collaboration, teamwork and synergy are what helped you balance your responsibilities.

Annette Khaled: Exactly. You got it. Exactly.

Alex Cumming: That seems to be a running trend here at UCF. With all of the amazing people Iā€™ve had the pleasure to speak with, is that UCF is just such a, and again this is not a new thought, but itā€™s just a great place for collaboration and teamwork are two of the big takeaways that you mentioned.

Everybody has their departments, but all the departments work together. And when all the departments are doing is great that just makes UCF look great.

Annette Khaled: I donā€™t know if itā€™s just because of the way ā€” weā€™re a young institution, right? In many ways, even biomedical research is barely a decade old, so we are still building our reputation. Weā€™re building our credibility in the state. And that part of that helps us lean on each other more maybe than if we were in a nice established, fully funded institution with all the bells and whistles. Most people can thrive on their own better, but you know here we really rely on each other to help each other move forward.

Alex Cumming: Thatā€™s why I love this place. A moment ago, we spoke about my personal experience with breast cancer, how it affected my life in my younger years. Have you been able to meet families of breast cancer patients through your work?

Annette Khaled: Oh, yeah. I work with two very important organizations for breast cancer in the state of Florida and in Orlando. The Florida Breast Cancer Foundation is a fantastic organization of folks, breast cancer survivors, as well as researchers, doctors, all sorts of individuals, who are really focused to eliminate breast cancer for the state of Florida. And so Iā€™ve been working with that organization for a number of years and really get a chance to interact with all these folks ā€” as I said, breast cancer survivors, breast cancer advocates, for folks that go all the way to Tallahassee and just do their best to get funds to help breast cancer survivors and breast cancer patients in the state of Florida, researchers like myself. So thatā€™s a great organization, the Florida Breast Cancer Foundation.

But I also work locally with the Orlando Sports Foundation and theyā€™re also an organization thatā€™s led by Alan Gooch, who was one of our first football coaches at UCF. He runs this fantastic foundation that is really trying to use sport and sport venues, like football, golf, even bowling, all these venues to drive awareness for breast cancer and fund breast cancer as well, generate funds for breast cancer. So working through that organization. Iā€™ve met great people who really have a big heart and want to make an impact in our community.

So, like I said, Iā€™m really blessed to have those two organizations that I can interact with and meet people

Alex Cumming: Youā€™re wearing the pink, most people wonā€™t be able to see it, but we know wearing pink to signify, to recognize, to honor the work people have gone through and to recognize the hard work that still goes into breast cancer awareness. And to have individuals that promote breast cancer awareness is so special to see is. That this is not just underground, subculture. It is in the general, it is in the zeitgeist. Again, you run into individuals who have experiences with breast cancer, like myself. Most people would be totally unaware that affected me in my younger years. Itā€™s not something that since then I often reflect, but itā€™s in my memories. And you run into people that you might not realize have had an experience, had a breast cancer scare, had a surgery to maybe remove a piece of themselves. And you donā€™t realize that wearing pink is so special because it just, itā€™s there, it exists. You want to recognize it, the pink bracelets that individuals wear. When you noticed it on somebody.

Annette Khaled: And itā€™s so true because it really says, ā€œWeā€™re here, youā€™re not alone. This is not a fight youā€™re doing by yourself and youā€™ve got all of us wearing pink because we all want to be part of that team, that big universal team that goes beyond Orlando beyond Florida.ā€ That really is a global team that works toward, supporting, and helping, and eliminating in the long run breast cancer.

Alex Cumming: From the families and the patients that you have met, what have you been able to learn?

Annette Khaled: Well, a lot of how they cope. I remember sitting at a lunch one day and talking to a lady who had breast cancer. Sheā€™s a survivor and sheā€™s [been] taking treatments for decades that give her hot flashes. Now, youā€™re young, youā€™re a man, you donā€™t know how hot flashes affect women, but I’m going through that and I can tell you itā€™s miserable. And I cannot imagine dealing for the rest of my life with hot flashes, but she has to because of the treatments sheā€™s getting. And I remember sitting there going like, “Gosh, I wish I could make a therapeutic this woman could take in place of what sheā€™s taking right now and help her have a better quality of life so that sheā€™s not living with these hot flashes.”

Itā€™s just things like that. But I found, just interacting with people made me appreciate really how itā€™s not just surviving. Ā Itā€™s about quality of life, and making sure that what I do in my laboratory and the therapeutics and diagnostics that we move forward are always about quality of life as well. We donā€™t want to put something out there that is going to make people sick more than they are from the cancer that theyā€™re dealing with.

Alex Cumming: Thatā€™s so special. To touch back on to the young students working to cure breast cancer, everybody has maybe their own motivations and their own stories of what inspires them, but itā€™s also this one larger goal.

Annette Khaled: Exactly. And I think itā€™s important. If I could just make one more plug here. I think itā€™s important that as a researcher, it doesnā€™t matter what discipline youā€™re working in ā€” whether itā€™s infectious disease or neuroscience, whatever field youā€™re in ā€” to always connect with the people, right. Connect with individual. You know that if youā€™re working in disease, Alzheimerā€™s connect with those. Youā€™re working with infectious disease, connect with people, HIV, because that connection really brings your research home. It really helps you focus your research on things that are going to impact people, not just something thatā€™s your own. Like you said, ego, right? Itā€™s something that youā€™re doing to do thatā€™s going to help the community. So I really love, not just for myself but also have my students connect with breast cancer survivors for that reason.

Alex Cumming: Humanity, that the individual in that room is not patient number 52. They are, John Doe from Longwood, Florida.

Annette Khaled: Exactly.

Alex Cumming: I have a personal experience with what youā€™re saying. My involvement at UCF Iā€™m with an organization called Playback UCF, which we began with our focus, itā€™s people tell stories and weā€™ll present them back through an improvised form. And we started with students and of course, young college students have a lot of feelings. They feel things very strongly, and it was very special to perform back, to get to know my cohort better. But then we transitioned and we work indefinitely with the Aphasia House here in the UCF area. And really the one-on-one experience of people who live life with aphasia it touches you in a way that you donā€™t expect going in. You might have an idea, but once youā€™ve experienced it firsthand you donā€™t forget.

Annette Khaled: And I think it helps, put perspective to things. It really helps you say, ā€œOkay, maybe what I was thinking wasnā€™t so bad. My own little problems in my own little world, I can give perspective to them.ā€

Alex Cumming: It does. Itā€™s sort of, a humbling, but not in a humbling, ā€œLike, oh man, now I feel bad.ā€ It’s a humbling like, ā€œWow, I get to wake up every day and not worry about these sorts of things.ā€

Annette Khaled: And in value, when these individuals are waking up every day and theyā€™re doing their lives and their things, and really the strengths that they have I always admire that tremendously.

Alex Cumming: Seriously to go back to another point, we have hope. The students have hope, but the individuals who are living with this day to day, their hope is what I want to believe. Their hope is what inspires the hope of the younger generations to continue to work. Because when they get afflicted by it, they donā€™t, sit down and say, ā€œWell, let me count down the clock.ā€ Itā€™s, ā€œNo, I know that somebody is working for me. Thereā€™s somebody out there who has me on their mind.ā€

Annette Khaled: And getting to a point you addressed earlier about your patientā€™s point of view and individualsā€™ hope and point of view, your mental wellbeing. If you have hope that whatever treatments, whatever therapy, whatever youā€™re going through, you have a chance of doing better because your mental wellbeing is healthy. Right?

And so thatā€™s why itā€™s so critical not just to have the treatments and then whatever youā€™re supposed to do, your doctor tells you is critical to do, but also along those same lines, you have the hope, you have the mental wellbeing because those two together ā€” the treatments and the mental wellbeing ā€” is whatā€™s going to lead to ultimately a treatment outcome, a success.

Alex Cumming: I love it. Do you have any other experiences or stories that keep yourself inspired?

Annette Khaled: Oh, thereā€™s so many of them. I have to pick and choose.

Alex Cumming: Any highlights?

Annette Khaled: Itā€™s really just being a survivor, and then not knowing if a cancerā€™s going to come back. And thatā€™s the other big thing is ā€” somebody tells me, ā€œI had breast cancer 20 years ago and then it came back and now itā€™s metastatic. And now I have five years, survival is really bad at this point, itā€™s 20% or less.ā€ So it just talking to patients who have metastatic cancer and the way that they know they have almost a death sentence on their heads and yet they still have the hope, still have that enthusiasm. Iā€™m going to be here for my grandkids. Iā€™m going to be here for my daughterā€™s wedding. So many of those stores really inspire me and say, what we do every day. What we wake up in the morning, go to the lab, go to work, go to school, whatever weā€™re doing, thinking of those people is really what drives a lot of that for me

Alex Cumming: Humanity, the one common that we all have, weā€™re all humans.

Annette Khaled: Yep. When youā€™re faced with a crisis like that humanity is even stronger. It comes out more.

Alex Cumming: So I want to move on to this next question of what are some of the biggest mysteries of breast cancer that we’re still trying to solve?

Annette Khaled: It comes back to what I was telling you, cancer recurrence, why after youā€™ve had treatment and the cancer was removed and you got all this therapy and you were given a clean bill of health ā€” and then whammo five, 10, 20 years later, it comes back. We really do not know why, what changed. And a lot of times when it comes back, the treatments that work the first time donā€™t work anymore. It really is a real challenge for physicians to know what to do for these patients. So thatā€™s one. And then the other one is the last few years immunotherapy, thatā€™s basically taking your bodyā€™s immune system and turning it on so it can kill cancer cells, has really been an exciting new research and therapeutic direction and great successes for patients. But it doesnā€™t work for all patients. In fact, it works for maybe under 30% of patients. When it does work itā€™s amazing, itā€™s a cure, but why doesnā€™t it work for everybody? Thatā€™s the other big question. Why canā€™t we get this immunotherapy that has been so successful in this group of patients to work for everybody? How can a doctor know, do I give my patient immunotherapy or not?

Those are kind of the two big things for me, is that, why does cancer come back and then how do we figure out to give the patients their best treatments?

Alex Cumming: Those are both two things that are, what a wild thing to think about. So what advice would you give to somebody who wants to do what you do?

Annette Khaled: Oh, you have to have a passion for it. Doing research is not something that you can just open the door and do. I think you really have to have a passion and a love for discovery and have a thick skin that you can put up with disappointment and struggle and the negative parts of it. But always have that passion for discovery and know that those moments when you have that, ā€œAha, well we just discovered something really cool.ā€ To be able to live for those moments and enjoy them. So I can say itā€™s a vocation almost to do research.

Alex Cumming:

Annette Khaled: Yes, endurance, lots of things that go with it ā€” and surprisingly optimism. I think you also have to have an optimistic mind frame because if youā€™re pessimistic and you look always at the hole and not the donut, youā€™re going to struggle. I think having a little bit of optimism is always good.

Alex Cumming: Yeah. I believe that translates to most everything that people do. Is there a profession you can have where you can just be a pessimist? If youā€™re like a critic?

Annette Khaled: Yeah, you can be a critic. I think thereā€™s some professions that work well with that, but I would say definitely in ours, because we have so much pessimism and thereā€™s so much negativity sometimes associated with doing medical research that I think, every little bit of optimism you can bring to it is important.

Alex Cumming: Totally. So whatā€™s one thing that you’re still hoping to do here at UCF, and then on a personal level?

Annette Khaled: Actually those two things are tied together. Weā€™re building a new cancer center and this has been something thatā€™s been in the works for now going on three years. Iā€™m hoping to be able to be part of the process that we build our cancer center and hopefully make it a place thatā€™s not only a place for students, a place for professors, like myself, to do research, a place for patients to come and get cutting-edge therapies. Really a place where all thatā€™s integrated, where we really have a flow of knowledge from all these levels of students, to professors, to patients, to doctors, to everybody involved in treating a cancer patient.

So really itā€™s ambitious, but I do see hope one day that we can be sitting here maybe 10 years down the road and saying, ā€œYeah, that Lake Nona Cancer Center thatā€™s one of the top 10 cancer centers in the country for everybody to come to.ā€

Alex Cumming: Iā€™m looking forward to it. I love the sound of a place where just knowledge healing growth is all just wrapped into one, based out of here in central Florida.

Annette Khaled: And has that unique ŗ£½ĒÖ±²„ culture, right? We were talking about earlier that collaborative culture that infuses our cancer system.

Alex Cumming: True that. I think everything we spoke about today can be found at UCF, the collaboration, the teamwork, the optimism, the growth for the future, the humanity, itā€™s all here at UCF.

So Annette, I want to say thank you so much for speaking with me today. loved our conversation. Thank you for letting me speak about my own personal experiences and for sharing your own experiences. Itā€™s been such a pleasure to get to learn more about something that I’m aware of, I have memories of, but to dive a little deeper into it. To get a better understanding of it. So itā€™s been a pleasure to get to speak with you and thank you for coming on.

Annette Khaled: Well, thank you for asking me. I really enjoyed it. And I’m so happy to hear about your grandmother.

Alex Cumming: Sheā€™s still here. I’m certain sheā€™ll love this episode.

Annette Khaled: Wish her well for me.

Alex Cumming: I certainly shall. Thank you.

Annette Khaled: Okay. Thank you. Take care.

Alex Cumming: Hey, thanks for listening. Iā€™ll see you, you, on the next episode of the Kights Do That podcast. If youā€™re doing something cool, whether thatā€™s at UCF or somewhere, you took UCF that we should know about. Send us an email socialmedia@ucf.edu, and maybe weā€™ll see you on an episode in the future. Go Knights and Charge On.

One of the areaā€™s most recognized and respected media personalities, Daniels reminisces on his experiences and favorite memories of the last three decades, gives an insider look into some coaches and players, shares his expertise as a broadcaster and previews this season of UCF Football under new head coach Gus Malzahn.

Produced by UCF, the podcast highlights students, faculty, staff, administrators and alumni who do incredible things on campus, in the community and around the globe.

Transcript

Marc Daniels: I think thatā€™s one of the biggest advantages that we have is that weā€™re still writing our history while others are kind of upholding a history.

And thatā€™s why I think this is the best time at UCF. Thereā€™s still so many amazing things that are out there.

Alex Cumming: Wow. Knight Nation. I am so excited for yā€™all to listen to this episode of Knights Do That. To me, itā€™s like music to my ears, hearing the Voice of UCF ā€” yeah, thatā€™s right. Today we have Marc Daniels, the Voice of UCF Athletics. Heā€™s sharing his experiences with UCF Athletics for 27 years now ā€” from the early memories and how he got started in broadcasting to sharing some of his favorite moments at UCF, like his iconic call for a in 2017.

And after all the reminiscing on UCF football and basketball, we get into looking ahead to this season of UCF football with Coach Malzahn and some of his predictions for the season. Knights, I hope youā€™re ready for this one.

Broadcasting at UCF, youā€™ve been identified as like “The Voice of UCF.” The thing that people ā€” I know for me, before meeting you personally here ā€” I identify you. I know your voice. When I see it on television. When I hear it in commercials Iā€™m like “There he is. Thatā€™s him.”

Marc Daniels: Yeah, thatā€™s cool to be recognized as that.

I joke and say, “Itā€™s the only skill I have, so I better be good at it.” No, Iā€™m honored when people connect me and they hear my voice go, “Oh, UCF and everything.” Itā€™s a privilege to do what I do. So Iā€™m honored when people come up and say, “Oh, Iā€™ve listened to you. Or, I went to school at UCF and now my son or daughter goes to UCF.” I love that. It means a lot to me. So Iā€™m grateful when people do that. And I love doing what I do.

Alex Cumming: Youā€™re checking out at the Publix. Do you have people say, “Do I know you from somewhere?”

Marc Daniels: Yeah. Youā€™re the voice of every conversation or lately what I get is, “Are you the guy on TV?”

And I go, ā€œYeah, Iā€™m UCF.” They go, “No, the guy selling cars and stuff.” Again, Iā€™m honored by that. I think itā€™s fantastic. And yeah, I love to meet people that say they appreciate your work.

Alex Cumming: I watch a lot of late night television, like talk shows, so youā€™re always the lead in into it. And Iā€™m like, “There he is. Thatā€™s the guy.” Like SNL is about to be on and you show up before it.

Marc Daniels: Itā€™s incredible. You work 30 years at a market and someone goes, “Yeah, they know you for a 15-second TV commercial.” But thatā€™s okay. Thatā€™s good.

Alex Cumming: Hey, itā€™s better to be recognized for that for something else. So broadcasting, what got you into it?

What was the draw for you into the broadcasting world?

Marc Daniels: Well, like a lot of people my age growing up, I was supposed to play professional baseball or basketball or football. I was supposed to be one of those stars and I was really good at baseball and thought that would be the path for me, but I started working in radio when I was 14 and was fortunate to have that opportunity and enjoyed it a lot.

And then when I got injured playing baseball and realized that perhaps was not going to be an avenue, then I pursued that path. And when I went to college, continuef to advance in it and being involved in sports was great for me. And just thought that was a good path and was fortunate to get some great opportunities and some wonderful people that helped open some doors for me. And I made the most of it working in radio and TV.

Alex Cumming: It seems as though a lot of people, they maybe they have one idea, then they fall into another. One thing that weā€™ve spoken a lot about on the podcast is the path can be uncertain, there are so many avenues that you can end at something that you find that speaks to me, sticks with me.

When did you realize that you were like, “Oh, I have this voice.”

Marc Daniels: I was working in a radio in high school and I had a few people in the business a long time that said, “Thatā€™s a pretty good voice that if you really want to make this a career, you got a chance to do that.”

So then when I went to college and started working in radio and television it felt like this could be something for me and the voice thing was going to work and it just grew from there. I had an incredible passion for sports and then when I got a chance to call games, which was always what I wanted to do. Once I felt like, okay, broadcasting is going to be a path and whether it was being a reporter or hosting a talk show, but then calling games and then just the rush of doing that became really something.

I said, “I want to see if I can make a career out of this.” And was fortunate to have some opportunities to develop.

Alex Cumming: Itā€™s so interesting to see that, these things so young, these little things you dabble in and how they can just blossom.

Marc Daniels: Yeah. I grew up in a house where sports was so much a part of our life.

My dad played minor league baseball for a couple of years. And I was born in New York. Our family, big New York sports scene fans. So the Yankees and the Giants, the Rangers, the Knicks and everything, and grew up listening to baseball on a little A.M. Transistor radio. And I idolized my dad and my older brother, who unfortunately passed away years ago. In my house you had to know the starting lineup ā€” not just of the Yankees, you had to know of the names and numbers of almost every player in Major League Baseball. My brother would quiz me and go, “Okay, hereā€™s the box score. Give me the 1974 lineup for the Chicago Cubs.ā€ And I was 7 and I think I knew it.

So thatā€™s where that passion came from. And then when you listen to games, cause now Iā€™m going back to when ESPN didnā€™t exist. So there was like one baseball game a week on TV that I got to watch. So you grew up listening to people call games and those magical voices at a time that A.M. radio was the thing. And you could be in New York and possibly pick up WGN in Chicago and hear a Cubs game or KMOX in St. Louis and hear the Cardinals.

And I think thatā€™s where it began to develop. And as I got older and our family moved to Florida, I still loved the concept of perhaps getting involved in broadcasting. So I, like a lot of kids, you do mock games. You pretend, youā€™re at the plate and you hit that game-winning home run. So I guess thatā€™s the roots of it.

Alex Cumming: I bet that transferred over really well, memorizing all those cause then you have to memorize baseball, menā€™s soccer, womenā€™s soccer, volleyball, football ā€” of all the players here at UCF and the major names within the conference NCAA sports as a whole to be familiar with the name that somebody throws out to you.

Marc Daniels: Yeah. Every sport is unique in the way you broadcast it. And thereā€™s a certain I think presentation you strive for. Like football broadcasts for about six, six and a half hours. Basketball is different because itā€™s a faster pace. Baseballā€™s a storytelling sport because thereā€™s so little action in the course of what could be a three, three and a half hour game. So youā€™re sharing stories, whether itā€™s about the players or about your life and things that you connect with eliciting audience.

So every sportā€™s unique and the way I prepare for broadcasts may be completely different than somebody else. And thereā€™s no right or wrong way. Itā€™s just diving into the event ā€” it really is a production and everyoneā€™s unique.

Alex Cumming: Yeah, definitely. So when you came to Orlando in 1989, which was a big year for Orlando sports. Orlando Magic right then, and then headed into that decade, UCF football became larger and larger. The Magic, you know with Shaquille Oā€™Neal, Penny Hardaway, their playoff run in the mid ā€˜90s.

Marc Daniels: Didnā€™t the World Cup come here in ā€˜94?

Alex Cumming: Thatā€™s right. The World Cup. Wow. And the Olympics are right up in Atlanta right?

Marc Daniels: ā€˜96 in Atlanta. But we had Olympic soccer in Orlando.

Alex Cumming: Thatā€™s right. Wild. But during that, youā€™re here and youā€™re working to create one of Orlandoā€™s first all sports stations. What can you tell me about those days? Remember going back to there, getting it off the ground.

Marc Daniels: I moved to Orlando in May of ā€˜89. Really taking a gamble. There was a job offer to me at a company called Florida Radio Network, which was just that. It was radio department that was distributing news and sports and features to affiliates around the state. And there was an opening to work in sports. But I came up here, I did some sports updates. I did news and a whole bunch of other things. And I took the job for $13,600 and it was just, okay, weā€™re going to go do something, letā€™s go do it. Came up here with very little and didnā€™t make a lot of money, but I had a blast and then was fortunate to have an opportunity to do the sports talk show that was on the local A.M. station.

And it was the summer before the Magic were going to start. And the guy that had been doing that show took a job in Washington and they gave me a one-month trial. And then when they said I was going forward they gave me $20 a show, and I thought an extra hundred bucks a week, I am living the big life.

And yeah, that was the year the Magic started, in that fall and Orlando, it was different today. Now that todayā€™s worse. Iā€™m just saying back then, when the Magic rolled out it was like, “Wow, thereā€™s a pro sports team in this town.” There was a very unique connection with the fan base and the expansion team.

And then to be able to get Shaq, and then Penny, it was special cause it happened so quickly. But every home game was a big event. Going downtown if you went to the Magic game and then you went out afterward, or even before to get dinner, it was a big event ā€” win or lose. Cause it was just, wow.

Michael Jordan, Larry Bird, Magic Johnson, theyā€™re coming to Orlando. That was a really big deal. And that was a fun, fun time in Orlando. And there was UCF, that was that football program and that athletic program and that university, that was nice, but it was the commuter school.

When I came here to everybody said, “Oh, thatā€™s a nice little commuter school.” I think when I came here, I think enrollment was like 16,000. And then when I started doing games in ā€˜95, I think it was like maybe 22, 23. And people are like, “Oh thatā€™s really big.” And now look where we are ā€” Ā over 70,000.

Alex Cumming: Itā€™s beautiful to see the growth of it.

So when youā€™re here in Orlando, we have the Magic growing, UCF growing, do you look down to Miami or to Tampa and you say, “They have scenes there that are established.” And you say, “I want to stick to Orlando to watch it grow and flourish and develop.” Which it has now ā€” Orlando City, UCF being this national brand here.

Marc Daniels: Yeah. Orlando was unique, as I said, because basketball was so new. And as somebody that moved to Florida, when I was 7 in 1974, you got to remember back then the Dolphins were new. That was it for pro sports. People didnā€™t follow pro sports, college sports was bigger.

The closest baseball team was the Braves in Atlanta. There was no NBA. And then things began to develop. Heck, when I grew up in South Florida the most popular baseball team was the ŗ£½ĒÖ±²„ of Miamiā€™s baseball team. When they won their first college world series, that was a major, not sports, that was a major news story. When they won their first national championship in football that was a big story. So I watched all these cities grow and as far as Orlando, the Magic kind of put it on the map. We became this international city that was known for more than just theme parks.

And all of a sudden you saw this sports explosion. I remember the bid process to get the World Cup here in ā€˜94. It was a really big deal. When Orlando landed that people were like, “Wait a minute. What?” And it was a vision by a lot of people, the mayor back then, and the kind of sports commission that was in place then.

So it was a really big deal to watch it grow over those years to where now you see the success of Orlando City and obviously what UCF has become. And it still has a chance to grow. I know the pro sports landscape, the way Tampa is aligned makes it maybe difficult to envision another pro team, but who knows. Weā€™ll see what the future holds, but itā€™s been fun in the 30 plus years Iā€™ve been here to watch it change.

Alex Cumming: Back in those early days, late ā€˜80s headed into the early ā€˜90s, what do you think was the success that you got this thing up off the ground and now seeing it flourish?

Marc Daniels: As far as the radio station?

Alex Cumming: Yeah. When you were there, what did you think was the success for that?

Marc Daniels: Radio was changing and the sports radio format exploded. It used to be that major cities had sports radio stations, and then it began to grow as a few networks popped up along the way. And the timing was right. I was one of several people that helped formulate the first all-sports station. We put it on the air in fact, on New Yearā€™s Day. And we had some success early, some bumps along the road, but I think that there was a passion because Orlando is still is relatively unique. Itā€™s a melting pot still have a lot of people, people like yourself, that were born here were unique in the sense, cause a lot of people came from New York, Chicago, Philadelphia, Boston and so forth that had moved here and it made it unique because if you were going to talk pro football, there are fans of the Steelers and Packers and Eagles and Giants and all sorts of things. And still today itā€™s the same way.

So I still think that was always unique about Orlando sports wise for college. The Gators were the dominant team, but again, when people moving from other places. You had Ohio State fans and Michigan fans and people like that. But now you fast forward with the growth of UCF. Now thereā€™s a lot more black and gold around town.

Now thereā€™s more Orlando City magnets on cars and things like that, which is great. It shows you how weā€™ve evolved and how the market has grown. And you talk about TV market being a top 20 market, and probably the next decade, it will easily move inside the top 15. This is a major city.

Alex Cumming: Oh, yeah. Big time. A lot of it is very generational. You know like what I was saying with my parents and their experiences with the Magic. I have experiences with the Magic. When I was younger if you pass the FCAT you got a free ticket to the Dwight Howard era games. And I regret not going to more of those looking back then now, you know how it is.

I was just at the Amway the other night for the draft and it was fantastic.

You have yet to miss a UCF game. Correct?

Marc Daniels: Are you jinxing me now? No, this will be year 27 and Iā€™ve done now over well, over 300 football games.

Alex Cumming: Respect for that. As I said, I have been, I remember the Citrus Bowl days headed on to, back at Bright House Stadium, headed onto what it is.

And Iā€™ve missed a game or two. As a student Iā€™ve been fortunate to go to a number. But in those, have you had any close calls where youā€™re like, “Maybe I wonā€™t make it to this game?”

Marc Daniels: No. In football, Iā€™ve been fortunate from a schedule standpoint that nothing takes a priority over UCF game day.

Travel wise, I donā€™t think we ever got to a point that it was like, “No weā€™re going to get there.” I do think over the years, I think thereā€™s a couple of games that I did get to on a day of the game but it was never a race to get to the stadium for kickoff. So Iā€™ve been fortunate when it comes to football, and I broadcast again, Iā€™ve done two games in Hawaii. Weā€™ve played a regular season game in Hawaii and the bowl game in Hawaii. I went to Ireland for the game against Penn State. Iā€™m fortunate between the football, basketball, baseball, and other events Iā€™ve done, I broadcasted over 250 campuses across the country. So Iā€™ve been in, some of the most iconic football stadiums at Penn State, Ohio State and Michigan and Alabama to some of the most scenic places.

Everybody should have BYU as a bucket list trip because itā€™s absolutely gorgeous to watch a game there. Stanford, New Mexico people may not think so, but the mountains are great. Ohio ŗ£½ĒÖ±²„ in Athens, Ohio, is a beautiful stadium. So itā€™s not all the glitz and glamour of these major places. Thereā€™s some great campuses. Thereā€™s some that I donā€™t have a desire to get back to but for the most part, itā€™s great. I love the opportunity to go to a new place and broadcast.

Alex Cumming: And soon those people come to Orlando and they say you got a bucket list. Donā€™t just go to, Lake Buena Vista, go to Disney, and Sea World make sure you get out and see the city downtown.

Head out ā€”

Marc Daniels: And it never fails when people come for the first time to experience a game day at UCF. I used to play for years. I still do. And I play this game when I travel. People see the UCF logo that Iā€™m wearing and some will still go, “Oh, UFC.” And youā€™re like, “No, itā€™s UCF.” And they go, “Oh yeah, I think I know them.” And I always play the game is, ” Do you know how big our school is? The enrollment .” And theyā€™re like, yeah, “I think itā€™s pretty big.” and I usually set them up and go, “Florida is like 53,000. So how many you think UCF is?” ” Oh, then itā€™s probably like 30.” And then when you go, “No itā€™s 60 or 65 or 70.” Then they donā€™t believe you. Then they Google it and they go, “Oh, wow. I didnā€™t know that.”

And the same thing happens when people come and visit our campus on a game day and they didnā€™t realize that, “Oh, wow. I didnā€™t think this was going on.” From all the pregame tailgating and Memory Mall and the fans outside the stadium. And then inside into experience, when the team comes out and, moments before kickoff and things like that.

Itā€™s great because they become walking billboards. When theyā€™ll go tell people, ā€œyou wonā€™t believe what it was like at that place,ā€ because until you experience it itā€™s hard to understand. And thatā€™s great. Itā€™s part of the growth of our brand. Thatā€™s still is the message being sent out there.

Alex Cumming: Itā€™s an Orlando event. A UCF game day is an Orlando event. Summer 2019, I was fortunate enough to get to visit Toronto and cities in Alaska, had a UCF hoodie on. People said “UCF.” People in Alaska. I met a bus driver in Alaska. He said, “Hey UCF, I have a friend who goes there. I know.”

Marc Daniels: Yeah. Itā€™s funny and itā€™s a credit, like Dr. Cartwright has even acknowledged it as well, the importance of an athletic program to this huge university and everything that we have going for it. So many wonderful things and the growth of our campus is incredible. But sports can help with that growth. I was fortunate, obviously to call every one of Tacko (Fall)ā€™s basketball games and to have him walk through an airport and to see people respond, not just because of his height, but then by the time he was a senior, to people know his story and have him meet people at an airport and speak in different languages because they knew that he was multilingual. And to take a photo, not because heā€™s this 7-foot-5 guy, but because thatā€™s Tacko Fall. Like when we were in New York for the NIT finals and you walk down Broadway, which is every type of person in the world. But it wasnā€™t like, “Look at this odd guy.” It was like, thatā€™s Tacko Fall! So thatā€™s a sign of not just him, but also for UCF. And obviously the football success the last few years has also been a huge part of that growth of the brand. And you can go anywhere and people go, “Oh yeah, itā€™s UCF.” Thatā€™s great.

Alex Cumming: Well Tacko recently on Jimmy Kimmel, it was so fun to see. And when I was at ā€” to bring it back just to the Magic for a second, Tackoā€™s first game for Boston, back in the Amway for a preseason game, I was there. Whole stadium, “We want Tacko. We wantā€”” It was truly something.

Marc Daniels: Yeah.

Alex Cumming: So as you said, UCF has had a lot of success, theyā€™ve had continued success over the past years. Recently itā€™s been a lot of eyes on us. Going back to your many years here at the university, what games stick out to you? What moments from years ago, recently, what can you just not get out of your head?

Marc Daniels: Wow. I guess Iā€™m most known for the Mike Hughes kickoff return against South Florida in 2017 and reservation for six of the cabanas.

Alex Cumming: Where did that come from? Thatā€™s just top of the head?

Marc Daniels: Hereā€™s Hughes the 5, 10 15, 20 25, 30, 40 45 50. Heā€™s got a reservation for six in the cabanas. Heā€™s gone! Touch down, boom!

Yeah. People ask, did have that written down? And thatā€™s not me.

There are some announcers that may do that, and thatā€™s fine. But I tell people what happened and with that play is Mikeā€™s back to return a kick and their kicker was really good at just kicking the ball in the end zone. And it was like, wait a minute, that ball is going to be returned.

So that kind of caught me at first. Then Mike made a couple moves. And then, to me Iā€™m watching and Iā€™m like, “Okay, heā€™s going to break free.” And then as he makes the last cut to get past the kicker, out of the corner of my eye, Iā€™m watching Knight fans celebrate. And Iā€™m just seeing him run towards the cabanas.

And thatā€™s how that came about. Itā€™s like, heā€™s got a reservation for six in the cabanas because I saw that group jumping up and down and thatā€™s how it happened. There was nothing else. And Mike did all the work. I just sat there, and called it. And yet I guess to some degree weā€™re forever connected over that, but thereā€™ve been many great moments over the years.

My first football game at UCF was Daunte Culpepperā€™s first game in 1995. And Iā€™ve said this for all the years Iā€™ve worked ā€” thatā€™s the greatest athlete Iā€™ve ever seen at UCF. Never seen an athlete like that. And we are blessed to have All Americans, Olympians and record holders, but Daunte was special. He was unique cause the time he came to UCF, as we were making that growth to become a Division I program, he was absolutely phenomenal. But thereā€™s been so many great moments over the years. The winner in Alabama, because of what it meant, to so many close calls of going on the road and playing all these teams and being in the game. And then to finally get one of those.

Obviously the 2013 team going to the first Fiesta Bowl was memorable. That team, big games there. The win at Penn State. Beating Louisville, the way they had the season going and getting to that first Fiesta Bowl. And Baylor was such an overwhelming favorite. And UCF just beat them in every part of the game.

Obviously the 2017 run. Look, the greatest eight quarters, the most exciting eight quarters of UCF football was the South Florida game followed by the Memphis game, which is like more than four quarters. So thereā€™ve been so many wonderful memories, and even games that UCF didnā€™t win to be able to go and broadcast from. You know were just a unique ā€” a game that we did win, the first game at Navy. Just to go there and broadcast a game and have an appreciation for that campus and what it stands for.

So Iā€™ve been blessed to be part of some of those, in football, great moments. And the beauty about UCF is there are still so many other firsts to happen. So many places that have 100+ years of history, youā€™re trying to accomplish something thatā€™s been done. But we have so many wonderful firsts that are still out there. Thatā€™s why Iā€™m blessed, Iā€™m privileged to do what I do because I canā€™t wait for the next first to happen.

Alex Cumming: You see so many people still talk about the Alabama kick, and youā€™re on social media and all these times these social media pages that are sharing highlights. Youā€™ll always find a UCF highlight in there. Blake Bortles amazing toss into the end zone. The Mike Hughes return. Oh my goodness. 2017, thereā€™s one on YouTube. Itā€™s like UCF, USF all-time thriller 2017. It was like 100,000 views. Itā€™s incredible. Just the highlights of these games. I get chills thinking about it.

Marc Daniels: Yeah. Weā€™ve got a great fan base, so they love that.

Alex Cumming: Iā€™ll say, and then think about, like you said, whatā€™s coming up, whatā€™s ahead that a lot of these universities, theyā€™ve had their moments of, “Wow, look at these guys.” And UCF hasnā€™t had that moment where this is the pinnacle.

Marc Daniels: Right.

Alex Cumming: UCF is still climbing.

Marc Daniels: Yeah. I did an interview recently with somebody who asked me, “What makes UCF such a unique place?” Theyā€™re asking about football. They, said, “What makes it such a unique place?”

And I said, “Imagine if you are able to go to work every day and they encourage you to be as creative as you can be. Just try stuff. Donā€™t worry about failing. If it doesnā€™t work, weā€™ll try something else and just think out of the box as you can.” If you think about thatā€™s what we become ā€” different uniforms. Weā€™re pretty active on social media. Weā€™ll get under the skin of our rivals and opponents. We donā€™t have a history that you have to act a certain way. We can go and be the life of the party where someone else goes, “I want to hang out with those guys cause theyā€™re having the most fun.” I think thatā€™s one of the biggest advantages that we have is that weā€™re still writing our history while others are upholding a history.

And thatā€™s why I think this is the best time at UCF. Thereā€™s still so many amazing things that are out there.

Alex Cumming: Very much agree. Someone shared with me once that UCF fans are so devout, as opposed to a lot of other teams in Florida, because most of the fans actually went there. The fans actually went there, the families that went there.

Marc Daniels: Yeah. And look, part of the enrollment growth at UCF did come from the other brands in this state that either A, maxed out on enrollment, changed whatever they thought their enrollment policies were and a generation looked at UCF ā€” and I have a nephew that I think was part of that, where my brother went to Florida State, my sister-in-law went to Florida and he was likely going to go to one or the other. And then something happened. He came to UCF and heā€™s like, “All the buildings are new. All the dorms are new. What are these four-bedroom suites, as opposed to this aging double that I would live in a brick building that was built in the 1890s?” And other young people said, “Hold on, this campus is gorgeous. Itā€™s 40 minutes to the beach there. Itā€™s theme parks.” And then that enrollment explosion took place. Heā€™s got three kids that are going to grow up and likely become Knights. So youā€™re right. Thatā€™s how all that developed. And weā€™re at the infancy of that. So as those thousands and thousands of alums begin to have families just imagine what happens to our fan base and the generations down the line.

Alex Cumming: The marketing, they do it for us. People say, yeah, UCF exists rent free because it is such a, beautiful school, like you said, itā€™s so creative. We have such an amazing social media team that works and gets the name out there. The faces out there, the people you recognize them.

Marc Daniels: But again, we can do things that other schools would be a little bit uncomfortable with. Again putting Twitter handles on the back of jerseys at a spring football game made people, “Go wait a minute. What?” And donā€™t think for a second, some major brands are like, “Thatā€™s really cool, but we probably canā€™t do that because thatā€™s not our zone.

And thatā€™s whatā€™s really cool about us is that we can try things like that. And our space uniforms are so cool. And everybody these days has multiple uniforms. Weā€™re among those that are like, “What are they wearing next?” When we rolled out our uniforms on game day thatā€™s a really big deal to our fans and a lot of other places like, “Oh, thatā€™s cool.”

Alex Cumming: You see thereā€™s a picture where it says like all the different uniforms and everybody would say, “This is my favorite. I like this combination, this helmet, these pants, these shoes. I have my personal favorite and Iā€™m certain, you could talk to people, they might have their personal favorites. They might not be for the same reason, you have a memory attached to it. Like you said, itā€™s a big deal when you see them coming out of the tunnel. I love it.

So speaking of the players, what about off the field? Players that youā€™ve gotten to know personally, how have your experiences been, speaking with the people behind the jerseys?

Marc Daniels: Yeah. I tell people all the time the best promoters of UCF are our students, our athletes, and the wonderful people in the campus. Their stories are amazing because thereā€™s so many different stories of those that have traveled far and those that are here local, that grow up and want to be Knights. And I get it when I meet players that come back with their families and, say, “Wow Marc, I remember your calls or talking and listening to you or a conversation on a flight or something like that.” And some of those players were All-Americans have gone to play professionally and others were role players that hardly ever played. And itā€™s great to meet them because we have so many wonderful stories in all of our sports. And thereā€™s some players that Iā€™ve really enjoyed getting to know over the years that have gone on to be successful.

One of the biggest hugs that I got recently ā€” Latavius Murray, who starred here at UCF andĀ  is still having a great career in the National Football League. Every time, I get a chance to see and catch up with him to get a huge embrace and players that were part of those first teams. The first bowl team in 2005 and all those guys that went to the NFL. Brandon Marshall has gone to be one of the best receivers in the NFL. And any time I still see Brandon, itā€™s as if heā€™s a freshman again ā€” and by the way that freshmen play defense. To remind people, we were so injured and thin at defensive back then that he and Mike Walker later, Mike Sims-Walker, played defense for us back then. But yeah, those are great to to meet people.

Like I said, I love meeting players who go, ā€œI want to introduce you to my children.ā€ It makes me feel old, but Iā€™m honored when that happens. And those are great stories that you connect with those people and theyā€™ll be friends for life.

Alex Cumming: Do you have a moment or a memory that sticks out to you?

Marc Daniels: Yeah. The first thing that sticks out to me, the Griffin twins and Shaquem Griffin and to see the impact that he had on families of teams that we played on the road. I was able to witness families bring children that have some real difficulties in life ā€” not able to walk or other issues that are gonna make their life a little bit more challenging. And to have him take the time, even though they may be wearing the colors of the team that heā€™s going to play in a few hours, and to sit down and look them in the eye and make them smile and make them feel like, you know what, youā€™re no different than me and if somebody else says you are different, understand that you can strive to be something.

And I got to watch both of those brothers realize the impact that they could have on people. And to see Shaquem sometimes bend down to talk to a child in a wheelchair or with braces and make them smile, thatā€™s a lot more than the final score of a football game. And to see a mother in tears because they hadnā€™t seen their childā€™s smile, thatā€™s powerful. Thatā€™s far more than, who won and what was the stat sheet today? And Iā€™ll never forget seeing that multiple times watching him do that. I remember at the Peach Bowl there was a media session that I was at that he was a part of and we came out of that and there was a family right there with a young daughter that she was in awe being able to meet him. So you donā€™t forget stuff like that.

Alex Cumming: Itā€™s bigger than the game.

Marc Daniels: Yeah, Yeah, absolutely.

Alex Cumming: Yeah. Thatā€™s a beautiful story. Youā€™re right that the students, student-athletes, they represent UCF so well, they take it with them and they are the brand. They are the face.

Marc Daniels: And it doesnā€™t matter the sport. Weā€™re in an era where I think people really, I hope they do understand, our student-athletes love to represent this university. I mean, theyā€™re incredibly passionate about winning championships and engaging with fans and giving back. And thatā€™s a testament to our coaches. You have incredible coaches and weā€™ve been fortunate to have great athletic leadership, like we do now with Terry Mohajir and his staff and our players I think really feel that. And you see that.

In the field, no matter what the sport is I think our players like everything that we just talked about, like being a little bit different, weā€™re on the edge and maybe the opponent doesnā€™t really like us and things like that. I think they embrace that situation and environment.

Alex Cumming: Since weā€™re here recording this, the practices for the fall season have begun.

Marc Daniels: Yup.

Alex Cumming: Whatā€™s on your mind? What are your predictions for this coming fall? New leadership, same amazing players, and some amazing new faces coming in, too.

Marc Daniels: Yeah. Itā€™ll be very exciting. Coach Malzahn has come in and I think heā€™s been phenomenal at bringing his experience over the years as a head coach and setting up a culture and environment that he wants, accountability for the players and expectation of the players, competition, and things like that. But I think heā€™s also embraced everything we were talking about of what makes UCF unique. He came from a place with a lot of tradition, did things a certain way, and people kind of wondered is he going to understand what is that UCF image and that kind of attitude. And heā€™s actually really embraced it.

Listen, who doesnā€™t want to come and play here in the sun, the fun that weā€™re going to have, this great campus, the theme parks, the partnerships we have there, the beach over here? And he wrapped his arms around that, jumped on social media, started telling everybody whatā€™s so great about this. Use it in recruiting and I kind of wonder where that would be. And he blew me away with how much he said, “Listen, I get it. And I know what our advantages are without even playing a game.” So I think heā€™s been great with that. He hired a really good staff.

Look, the expectations are high for UCF, and I think thatā€™s good. The team has a chance to be really good. It brings back a number of key players from last year. We lost a lot of key players from last yearā€™s team. But Coach Malzahn has brought in a group of transfers that I think could have an immediate impact. Some freshmen that I think we brought in this class are going to step in and help.

So I think weā€™re going to be a team that has a chance to win every game. Doesnā€™t mean youā€™re guaranteed to win every game, but Iā€™m not quite sure thereā€™s a game youā€™re like, “Hey, theyā€™re just that much better than us.” I think that you want to get to a level that you feel that way about your program and believe me, I remember the days you were like, “Weā€™re here to pick up a check and stick around.” But this team has the chance to win every game.

And I will say this, that over the years, because of our accomplishments and our reputation, when we go on the road, everybody wants to beat UCF. Everybody wants to beat UCF. And you know what, thatā€™s what you want. You want that where youā€™re the big ticket in town. When you come to town, People are like, “Oh I donā€™t like them. I want to root against them.” And you play a brand of football thatā€™s also exciting. So I think itā€™s got a chance to be a really great 2021 season, but understand youā€™re going to get everybodyā€™s best game week in and week out.

Alex Cumming: Thatā€™s what the fans want. Iā€™m certain for yourself to announce those are the most fun. The ones where maybe the nail biters, the one when youā€™re on your edge, you donā€™t know what to expect.

Marc Daniels: Yeah, exactly. And whoā€™s going to make the big play? Whoā€™s going to become the highlight for that day? And I think we got a chance to have a lot of those big plays this year. Obviously, Dillon Gabrielā€™s a special quarterback and heā€™ll have a big year. The entire offensive line is back. And even though we did lose some players, the backfield and wide receiver. We have a ton of talent there. I think the defense is going to be a lot better with some of the additions the coaches brought in.

So the stage is set and itā€™s a huge first big game. Boise Stateā€™s a really good team, a heavy favorite to win their conference. Great. I mean theyā€™re 20 years into this run of being a heavy favorite every time out, of double digit wins and things like that. So itā€™s a great matchup.

Alex Cumming: That home opener in September. Iā€™m counting the days. The energy there is going to be like nothing else. Coming out of last season where limited capacity of fans to have the whole place back and bouncing.

Marc Daniels: Yeah. We think that thereā€™ll be a record demand for student tickets and everything, and you can feel that now. Obviously the stadium is selling out and itā€™ll be a special place because we know when that place is packed the crowd can make a difference. Itā€™s one of the reasons why it is hard for us to get home games. Everybodyā€™s asking about schedules and itā€™s hard to get teams to come here and play because the reputation is itā€™s a tough place to go win.

Alex Cumming: They know. Theyā€™re aware of the energy that the students, that the fans bring.

Marc Daniels: Absolutely.

Alex Cumming: Thereā€™s no place like it.

In your perspective, we were talking about football here, so far what have your impressions been? Terry Mohajir and Coach Malzahn.

Marc Daniels: Terry is one of the most energetic people youā€™ll ever come across.

Itā€™s hard to spend 10 minutes and not leave excited with an adrenaline rush of, “Okay, what can I do?” So I can see why his personality is contagious. Iā€™ve been so impressed the way heā€™s come in, and also has embraced the culture of UCF, see what the vision is, add to it his own ideas on how to help the UCF brand grow, and so heā€™s been great. He, I think was the right person, the right time for UCF. And I think loves what the UCF opportunity is. So heā€™s brought in some great people that have worked with him before, as well as embracing some of the people that have been here.

One of the management things I love about Terry is that he encourages creativity. Give me some ideas, letā€™s go get some stuff done, letā€™s go have some fun, letā€™s be successful and letā€™s go do it. You know, letā€™s not procrastinate, letā€™s go do something. I love that about him.

And same when Dr. Cartwright came in with a vision and a challenging first year, obviously with COVID, and fortunate to get a little bit of time with him and to hear him talk about the vision for UCF, I mean as big as we are now, and where he wants to take it. So to have that type of leadership is great and not saying, “Hey, weā€™ll live off the success of the past. We want to keep growing.” So itā€™s awesome.

And like I said, I think Gus has been great to come in and also welcome that personality. And then there are great coaches and athletics ā€” and I hope people have had a chance if you havenā€™t to meet all of our coaches. We have an amazing group of people that is really special to have at UCF. And I know Terry recognized that quickly coming here. We do compete for championships all the time and itā€™s because the loyalty of a lot of these coaches that say, “Hey, this is a great place to be at.” So itā€™s a really good vibe right now.

Alex Cumming: From the interviews that youā€™ve done with both of them, and from my speaking with President Cartwright, Iā€™ve seen this overarching theme of group think. That Iā€™m not 100%. I want to hear from everybody. I wanna hear from all of yā€™all what you have to say. Who can contribute? So itā€™s not just this one-track mind, cause you all know something that I donā€™t, letā€™s work together and go forward with it.

Marc Daniels: Yeah. Oh, absolutely. Again, Iā€™ve had a chance to talk with Dr. Cartwright a couple of times. But the feedback I get from others is exactly that, that he is all ears. And absorbs that and then says, “Okay, what do we all think is best for us?” and then Iā€™ll take the leadership and then weā€™ll go from there. I think Terry has been the same way.

Terry certainly has a vision of what he wants UCF to be, but realizes he needs other people to come aboard for the ride. And thatā€™s again, itā€™s part of the great thing about UCF is that weā€™re paving the roads of our future. And both of those individuals in their leadership role realize if we lock arms and keep growing, weā€™re going to be unstoppable. Which is great because, you know, you always wonder, people coming from other places had their habits of doing things and do they get what we are, but yet they bring an expertise that says, “Hereā€™s how we can get there even faster and be even bigger.”

Alex Cumming: One thing I appreciate about both of them, and Iā€™ll go back to this transition for the new coaching staff and the new athletics director, it happened very fast. There was some speakings of it, but it happened very fast. And from the moment that I saw that video of Terry Mohajir doing the pushups on the plank on top of the crowd, if youā€™re familiar, I said ā€”

Marc Daniels: At Arkansas State.

Alex Cumming: At Arkansas State, yes. I said, “Thatā€™s UCF.”

Marc Daniels: That or the TikTok videos with his kid. Yeah, because youā€™re like, “Okay, that guy, yeah with us and everything is going to fit and everything.” And like I said, his energy is fantastic. He just has a great passion that itā€™s hard to be around him and not feel the same type of passion, which is great.

Alex Cumming: What I love so much about UCF through the brand, and the idea, and the coaching, and the student-athletes they have personality and a sense of humor about themselves.

Marc Daniels: Yeah.

Alex Cumming: They understand. They take their job seriously, but not themselves too seriously that they can understand that itā€™s OK to crack a joke every now and then, itā€™s OK to bring your personality to the table. And thatā€™s what I love seeing every time with all these people. It makes the students feel more involved with it that they say, “Theyā€™re like us. They understand and theyā€™re not stern in their ways, that they can let loose a bit.”

Marc Daniels: Yeah. And it stretches far beyond athletics. There are some historical sites on this campus, but itā€™s interesting. You could walk on some campuses in the state or across the country, and someone can tell you the story of that building from 1797. You can walk across some bodies of water and someone say, “I remember fighting to get a duck in that pond right there because that was so important. And thatā€™s, whatā€™s unique about UCF.”

Alex Cumming: Itā€™s I love it. So now, Marc, Iā€™m going to turn the tables on you and Iā€™m going to shoot you some lightning round questions.

Marc Daniels: Iā€™m ready.

Alex Cumming: You ready?

Marc Daniels: Letā€™s do it.

Alex Cumming: Alright. Alright. Here we go. Football or basketball?

Marc Daniels: Neither, I canā€™t pick one or the other. You canā€™t do that. Football is unique because, again, the presentation from a broadcast standpoint, itā€™s six, six and a half hours. Itā€™s an entire week really preparing for broadcast. Basketball itā€™s a two and a half hour broadcast. Itā€™s fast pace and from one game youā€™re onto the next game. Theyā€™re each unique in their own way.

Alex Cumming: Good answer. Citronaut or Knugget?

Marc Daniels: Oh.

Alex Cumming: I know. I know. Itā€™s almost blasphemy, but whatā€™s your answer here, Marc?

Marc Daniels: Wow. I do like Citronaut a little bit more. Knuggetā€™s adorable, but Citronaut is ā€” so many people ask, “Why donā€™t we switch that?” Iā€™m like, “No, thatā€™s what makes Citronaut unique is that, itā€™s there, it comes once in a while and everything and it just kind of goes away.” But again, thatā€™s also part of, whatā€™s really cool about us. You can have all those things. I do love Knugget, but Citronaut is pretty cool.

Alex Cumming: How can you not love both? Weā€™re simultaneously Knight Nation and ā€˜Naut Nation.

Marc Daniels: Yeah.

Alex Cumming: Ready?

Marc Daniels: Yup.

Alex Cumming: Vacation or staycation? We do live in Orlando.

Marc Daniels: Yeah. Itā€™s probably staycation. Just because of my schedule, my wife and I donā€™t do many trips. So itā€™s more staycations, maybe a day trip somewhere and everything because I do travel a lot. If given some free time to relax and not do much itā€™s probably a staycation. Thereā€™s a lot of great places around here and Iā€™m a theme park guy too.

Alex Cumming: During the athletic seasons, do you say, “Alright, nobody planned a wedding, nobody have a baby. Busy, Saturdays, game days.ā€

Marc Daniels: I got married in June and my daughters were born in March in May. So you know ā€”

Alex Cumming: Not a Saturday in October right? Not a Saturday in October. Alright, night or morning?

Marc Daniels: Wow, morning and Iā€™ll tell you why, because I love getting up and saying, “What is today going to be about?” And go tackling the day.

Alex Cumming: Ā Alright, Iā€™m going to reality TV or dramas?

Iā€™ll answer reality TV because I think junk for the brain once in a while is healthy. And it is a little guilty pleasure with my wife sometimes watching some of the reality TV that she may watch. But I say this as someone that was in the audience at the first ever Survivor final.

Alex Cumming: Really?

Marc Daniels: So thatā€™s where it started. Yeah, my wife and I went to Hollywood for the first one, when Survivor was Survivor and we were in the studio audience for the first ever final. So I guess thatā€™s where the reality TV bug started. I never want to be on one of those shows, would never do any of those shows, but then I get a chuckle out of it. And scripted reality TV is hilarious and I just find it totally funny. Itā€™s fantastically bad.

Alex Cumming: Big time. I totally agree. Are you a savory or sweet man?

Marc Daniels: Used to be, but sweets for the most part are gone. This is somebody that lost 70 pounds a few years ago, so now Iā€™m a nutritious nut. Once in a while, I would treat myself. But sweets used to be one of the downfalls. Sweets are great, but I just donā€™t do it as much.

Alex Cumming: I hear that. Now youā€™re traveling a lot. Window or aisle seat?

Marc Daniels: Claustrophobic, so I have to sit in the aisle.

Alex Cumming: Oh.

Marc Daniels: Yeah. The aisleā€™s really big. You do not want to be on a flight with a window with me cause you likely wouldnā€™t get me on that flight. Iā€™d wait until the next flight. Yeah. And it wasnā€™t always the case. It actually happened on a flight back from a UCF basketball game. And I just had a moment where a panic attack and it was, “Whoa.” And since then I have to sit in the aisle. Yeah. Plus I want to be near the beverage cart. Itā€™s just so much funā€”

Alex Cumming: Reaching over people thatā€™s ā€”

Marc Daniels: Well thereā€™s nothing like watching a group of individuals just respond to, “Wait a minute. Is that a bag of pretzels and a half a can of soda? Because Iā€™m lined up for that.”

Alex Cumming: “For me?”

Marc Daniels: “I have a choice? Unbelievable.”

Alex Cumming: “Diet or regular?” Alright, hereā€™s the last one. Best sporting event youā€™ve ever witnessed in person?

Marc Daniels: Wow.

Alex Cumming: Iā€™m here with the heavy hitters.

Marc Daniels: Is it UCF or non-UCF?

Alex Cumming: Letā€™s do both.

Marc Daniels: The Scott Norwoodā€™s missed kick against the Giants when they won the Super Bowl, and as a Giants fan, it was incredible.

Thereā€™s an amazing story behind that. Between cousins and friends, there was about a dozen of us and when the week began, nobody had tickets and then we ended up all getting into the game, but thatā€™s a story for another day. So thatā€™s the best non-UCF sports moment that I was ever at because we celebrated a missed field goal and the Giants won.

Itā€™s really hard to pick for UCF. So Iā€™ll give you two. Look football, the Mike Hughes return because to me itā€™s the itā€™s the greatest football game that Iā€™ve ever been a part of ā€” until the next week against Memphis when that was the next greatest game. But I think the Hughes return was really special because of that game, everything going on. Itā€™s not that the Peach Bowl victory wasnā€™t or the Fiesta Bowl victory wasnā€™t.

But Iā€™ll give you a moment that was not a UCF win and it was the Duke basketball game because of just how that story developed when the bracket came out. One, weā€™re excited to be in, playing VCU. And then you couldnā€™t help but go, “Wait a minute, thatā€™s Duke in the next game. And if we win itā€™s Johnny Dawkins and Coach K and Zion and Tacko. And then that happened. It was one of these weird but incredible feelings after we won because we played the late game that opening night. Duke had already advanced it. There was this case of, weā€™re not just isnā€™t this cool weā€™re going to play Duke. There was like, “This is a game.” And it was supposed to be like, “No, this is Duke.” And I will never forget the buzz of that building. When that game was an hour before tip off, that place was packed. And the vibe when that ball went up, that game was absolutely incredible.

And I could go play by play with you and they should have called the foul on Zion, but they were never going to call the fifth foul. The hook by RJ Barrett that should have been called a foul, and the free throw, and the shove, and how Aubrey Dawkinsā€™ shot did not go in. I still donā€™t know. Those are more recent ones. But those are two of the great moments.

Alex Cumming: Every year, March ESPN classics. Duke, UCF basketball. Every year since then.

Marc Daniels: Yeah. Again, a magical game and all the parties involved with that and Coach K and Johnny Dawkins.

Alex Cumming: Just the storylines.

Marc Daniels: Absolutely unbelievable. The timing was a Sunday night, the CBS, the huge crowd watching across the country, itā€™s one of the most viewed UCF events ever. So yeah.

Alex Cumming: I was in a rehearsal. I was sneak watching it. Iā€™m watching it out here, sweating in my costume. It was wild.

Well, Iā€™ll move here into this final section. What advice would you give to somebody who wants to do what you do?

Marc Daniels: Have dreams, have goals, but have an open mind that youā€™re living in the most amazing time that you could try anything. And youā€™ll never know where youā€™re going to end up because if you say, “I want to be a broadcaster today,” is so many things than when I said, “I think I want to get involved in broadcasting.” Between social media, the many platforms that you can broadcast. You hold your iPhone, youā€™re walking production company. Thereā€™s so many ways to send a message. So have an open mind donā€™t necessarily be obsessed with being in front of the camera, behind the camera is an amazing world of creativity. Thereā€™s so many different opportunities.

So I would tell somebody have dreams and goals, but have an open mind to go left, go right, go down the middle, take the road that looks like itā€™s a little bit more challenging. Embrace opportunities. Donā€™t be afraid to fail, and you never know where youā€™re going to land.

I went to college with somebody that only wanted to be involved in front of the camera. He wanted to be on sports and everything. And he went on to basically be one of the key people at Cartoon Network and would have been like, “What?” Itā€™s like most of the cartoons you saw in the ā€˜90s he brought over to this. Just, you never know the point is he had no idea he wanted to do that, now obsessed with that. And itā€™s a great time to create. You could create a movie on your phone. The applications that are available, thereā€™s nothing anybody canā€™t create today.

Alex Cumming: As somebody who loves broadcasting, I appreciate hearing that. Itā€™s always good.

Marc Daniels: And learn how to write. Writing ā€˜s priceless. Writing will pay you back. If you love to write stories, if you just loved to write anything, write because it will always give you back. Itā€™s one of the greatest tools you can have. And a lot of people in broadcasting never do that, they never ā€” I love writing columns. I write columns for the radio stations, website. Iā€™ve written columns for UCF and everything, and I love it. Itā€™s great. Itā€™s the ultimate form of storytelling because youā€™re trying to put into words what someoneā€™s going to visualize. And itā€™s incredibly powerful when that happens and it connects and someone can actually read what you wrote and visualize it. And if they do it the way you want it to, then you broke the formula and it works.

Itā€™s one of the great things I love about radio. Itā€™s my job to paint the picture for somebody. Itā€™s my job to let them know, not just score, down, distance, how much time is left. Is it warm? Is it cold? Is it tense? Is it a gray day? Is it a physical day? Whatā€™s the game like? Whatā€™s happening? Whoā€™s the start of nowhere? Give me this little bit of information to make me care more about that player that just made that play and the art of storytelling. Itā€™s incredible. And when it works, it works. And itā€™s a beautiful thing.

Alex Cumming: When it works thereā€™s nothing like that.

Marc Daniels: Yeah, itā€™s awesome.

Alex Cumming: And Iā€™ll close with this, whatā€™s one thing that youā€™re still hoping to.do?

Marc Daniels: Call the first football national championship for UCF, what are you talking about? ,Thatā€™s it, man. Thatā€™s it. And hopefully many of them. I really look, again, I am blessed and privileged to do what I do at UCF. And as Iā€™ve said, I have been so fortunate to be able to broadcast many firsts at UCF, but there are so many more and I want to be a part of those. And thereā€™s so many more great moments that I want to see. And if I can be a part of some way, that excites me.

I love the next game because you never know whatā€™s going to happen. I love the next moment. I love going to a game Iā€™m not even broadcasting because it may come down to the final seconds and someone may become a hero. I love to learn the stories of our student-athletes and our coaches.

I just want to keep on being there for those memorable moments. Whatā€™s going to be the next reservation for six? I donā€™t know. But man, I want to find out.

Alex Cumming: Whatā€™s the next line that people are going to come up to you.

Marc Daniels: Yeah. And I have no idea what it is, but man, I can not wait for that to happen.

Alex Cumming: The days where they come and say, “Hey, can you do the line?” And youā€™re like, “Oh, which one?”

Marc Daniels: I love it though. So I donā€™t know when itā€™s going to be, what sport, where Iā€™ll be, but man, I am looking forward to being there.

Alex Cumming: I look so forward to hearing you announce those games and the first UCF national championship game that youā€™re announcing. Thatā€™ll be something. I look forward to seeing you there. Marc, this conversation, Iā€™ve enjoyed it so much.

Marc Daniels: Thank you. I appreciate that.

Alex Cumming: I want to say thank you so much for coming on, itā€™s been such an honor and a pleasure to get to speak with you.

Marc Daniels: Thank you so much. It was great. Thanks for having me appreciate it.

Alex Cumming: Thanks again for listening. Be sure to stream and download on whatever platform you use to listen to podcasts. I hope youā€™re enjoying learning how Knights are making a positive impact in our community, our nation and the world. And hey, if youā€™re doing something cool, whether thatā€™s at UCF or somewhere you took UCF that we should know about, send us an email at socialmedia@ucf.edu, and maybe weā€™ll see you on an episode in the future. Go Knights, and Charge On!

Edwards earned his bachelorā€™s degree in biology, masterā€™s degree in Ā masterā€™s degree in molecular biologyĢż²¹²Ō»åĢżdoctorate in biomedical sciences with a focus on neuroscience at UCF in 2011 and has an impressive resume including, most recently leading the research and development for the COVID-19 vaccine. Edwards discusses what it was like working on the COVID-19 vaccine, the moment it was released and what he looks forward to most as we approach a return to pre-pandemic work and life.

Edwards is also the cover story in the summer issue of Pegasus magazine.

Produced by UCF, the podcast highlights students, faculty, staff, administrators and alumni who do incredible things on campus, in the community and around the globe.

Transcript

Darin Edwards: Ā Honestly it was one of the best moments of my life ā€” seeing those pictures of my parents with needles in arms, it was so incredibly satisfying and emotional at the same time. It was one of the main drivers of the work that I did, and knowing that shortly after they got that dose, that they were going to be protected and they were not going to have a severe outcome to this horrible disease, it was such an amazing moment for me.

Alex Cumming: I recently had the pleasure of speaking with Darin Edwards, a UCF alum and the director of immunology at Moderna. You know that company who developed a COVID 19 vaccine? Darin earned his bachelorā€™s degree in biology, masterā€™s degree in molecular biology and doctorate in biomedical sciences with a focus on neuroscience at UCF in 2011. Darin has an impressive resume from computer programming to, of course, most recently leading the research for the COVID-19 vaccine and a deep love for all things UCF, especially in Knights Football.

We get into what it was like working on the vaccine, the moment it was released and what he looks forward to most,as we approach a return to pre-pandemic work and life.

When you started, you were working out in programming before pursuing your masterā€™s and then getting your Ph.D. in biomedical sciences. How did you know that it was time to pursue a new interest to go back to school?

Darin Edwards: I actually joined a company called Gardner back during the whole dot-com boom. As I had some experience developing a software that was after I did my undergraduate work at UCF. When I got my degree in biology and molecular biology, always intending to go to the next step, to get my Ph.D. But as you know, when youā€™re young in your early 20s, money does draw. So I wanted to make a bit of money before I went back and did my Ph.D. work. That actually lasted all the way through my 20s. So all the way till I was almost 30. And although I was good at programming, it wasnā€™t a passion.

My passion was really geared more toward helping people, doing things that might have more of an impact on global health. So I saw the opportunity to rejoin UCFā€™s graduate program. And IĀ jumped at it, went back to school and not only changed my focus, but obviously changed my whole career.

Alex Cumming: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, your time at UCF when youā€™re so young and still figuring out what it is that youā€™re so interested in, the ability to get to research and experiment with so many different ventures, it gives you really a lot of opportunities to figure out what it is you want to pursue in the long-term, right?

Darin Edwards: Yeah. And, you know, I had that both from the undergraduate perspective, but also the graduate perspective. As an undergraduate, just the breadth of courses that UCF offers really gave me a chance to not only explore the field that I planned to go into, but also to touch on other areas, other aspects of industry or areas of work that I might want to explore in the future. I had somewhat of a foundation in computers prior to the undergraduate time, but I took some computer courses during the time when I was more focused on biology and molecular biology. And that allowed me to actually get into the computer field.

But going back as, a graduate student, one of the really nice things that UCF provides and the system that UCF has is thereā€™s a lot of allowance for quite a bit of independence and allowing young scientists, in my case to, grow not only from the perspective of coursework and learning the field in general, but also by allowing students to explore, to develop themselves, to be intellectually curious and to go off on tangents and directions that they might not necessarily be directly focused on.

It allows for people after that academic time to really be comfortable in situations where you just have to think outside of the box. And I think all of us have situations like that in our careers and laying the foundation during the academic time is very important.

Alex Cumming: I like what you said there about the independence to get out and study. Maybe thatā€™s not the career path you go down, but just the moments you had in there, who knows where something you picked up or something you realize itā€™s going to come back in the bigger picture and say, you know, I picked up on that and I thought that was really nice.

Darin Edwards: Ā It makes it fun, too. You know, being able to do something, out of the box, take a course in in bowling, for example. I did that as an undergraduate. It was a lot of fun. Incorporating fun, incorporating adventure during your academic time is very important and I think a UCF provides that freedom.

Alex Cumming: Ā How cool. I can imagine that with the rigor and the stress of all the computing that youā€™re doing in your major, the ability to go out and knock down a few pins is probably a little bit, itā€™s probably a little satisfying.

Darin Edwards: There were a few pints kicked back.

Alex Cumming: Well, thatā€™s what you gotta do when youā€™re out bowling. You worked long hours for day after day and months to develop this vaccine. What were some of the things that you thought about daily that kept you motivated while you were working so hard?

Darin Edwards: Well, I mean, the obvious answer is the pandemic. Being in a situation, a unique situation where I could directly affect how long the pandemic was going to last and also get us back to work, get us back to play, but also to prevent those unfortunate situations where people became very ill and died ā€” that was the, the natural motivator to keep me going.

My teammates though, in addition to just the pandemic focus, just seeing the sacrifice that was being made across the whole company and not only across the company, but collaborators that we had throughout the pandemic, seeing the sacrifice that was being made by individuals across the globe. Who would I have beenĀ  to not sacrifice myself and, you know, give up family time to, give up time spent with friends. It was a worthwhile effort. And I was happy to give that part of myself. And fortunately it was very successful.

If you give that much to an effort, you naturally want it to have a successful outcome. And I think, obviously with people getting vaccinated and seeing that restrictions are being lifted, case numbers are dropping itā€™s very satisfying and Iā€™m very happy to have done that for so long.

Alex Cumming: Well, thank you so much. And congratulations.

Darin Edwards: Thank you.

Alex Cumming: To put all the work in that you did throughout that time, getting people back to a sense of normalcy, that they can go out and be with their loved ones. So thank you again for doing what you did so that people can experience time with their loved ones they might not have been able to see for over a year, maybe close to 15 months.

Darin Edwards: Yeah. And you know, there was my own personal aspect to the whole thing, knowing that I have elderly parents, knowing that they were at high risk for severe outcome to COVID-19. That was a personal driver for me.

More than just myself, obviously I wanted to get out and play and not be worried about a disease, but Iā€™m younger. Iā€™m not in such a high risk category. My parents and loved ones in that age range were obviously a particular motivator for me.

Alex Cumming: Right. So when your parents got the first dose of the vaccine, how was that as an experience for yourself?

Darin Edwards: It was, you know, honestly it was one of the best moments of my life. Seeing those pictures of my parents with needles in arms ā€” they actually got their first and second dose at the Orange County Convention Center.

They went through that whole process, that whole cue where, they drove in with their car. My sister actually took them and it was a very smooth and good process. You know, you should be proud what orange county did down there to make it so easy. But she took pictures of each as they got their dose, and it was so incredibly satisfying and emotional at the same time. It was one of the, like I mentioned, one of the main drivers of the work that I did.

And knowing that shortly after they got that dose, that they were going to be protected and they were not going to have a severe outcome to this horrible disease. It was, it was such an amazing moment for me.

Alex Cumming: Yeah, I believe it. That sounds fantastic. In a personal sense and in a professional sense, how were you able to manage such intense work pressure for it all?

Darin Edwards: Thatā€™s a good question. Sometimes. Iā€™m really not completely sure how, not only myself, but other members of the Moderna team that Iā€™m partnered with, how weā€™ve all managed. I think in part itā€™s just, we really had to focus on many different areas into different aspects simultaneously. One interesting thing is, during this time weā€™ve not only been pushing forward this COVID vaccine and working long hours in highly stressful situations to get this forward. Weā€™ve also recognized that this is an opportunity to leverage our mRNA platform against other infectious disease targets. So weā€™ve had to juggle not only the development of this vaccine, but also growing the company. Thatā€™s outside of the scope of the conversation today, but that has obviously increased the amount of work in parallel to obviously all the work that weā€™ve performed on that on the COVID vaccine.

One way that Iā€™ve managed it is recognizing those areas that I need to focus on and areas that maybe donā€™t require my direct input, and growing my team, developing my team to cover those areas that maybe I donā€™t have to have all of the interaction, all of the focus on. That has helped.

In addition to that, weā€™ve leveraged partnerships. We partnered with the NIH on this effort and not only partnered with the NIH, but partnered with the top people at the NIH. Dr. Barney Graham and his team at the VRC, the vaccine research center, has really assisted and helped in developing, this COVID vaccine, and having such key scientific minds, such amazing researchers engaged in this effort has helped with workload, has helped with stress. Because when youā€™re talking to the key scientists the top minds the world, and youā€™re coming to a path forward with them, you have confidence. And that confidence in our approach and our strategy, although, thereā€™s been a lot of stress along the way, at least weā€™ve had confidence throughout in the approach that weā€™ve taken.

Alex Cumming: It sounds like the team building, the work that you do with the people around you, that you canā€™t bear the load all on your own.

Darin Edwards: Yeah. And thatā€™s been a key driver for me, in addition to the vaccine. Developing teams getting people to grow and develop and leveraging that growth in the work that we do not only helps with the workload, not only helps with the stress, but thereā€™s a huge degree of satisfaction seeing people develop and grow. Thatā€™s something that drives me every day, as well.

Alex Cumming: Madrona is a smaller company in comparison to the other corporations that were developing the vaccine. How did such a small team that you were working with do such and achieve big things?

Darin Edwards: I mean, short answer, blood, sweat, and tears.

But a longer answer thereā€™s several areas, several parts to that answer.

One, we have a platform technology that enables us to do a lot with a small number of people. When youā€™re talking about traditional vaccine technologies, youā€™re talking about developing each one on an individual basis. As we are a platform company, we can use the same manufacturing line. We can use the same processes for all of our vaccine efforts or even all of our therapeutic vaccine efforts. So technologically thatā€™s one aspect where we have an advantage.

But it is a small team. We are at the start of the pandemic, I think the total employee count at Moderna was less than 1,000. Contrast that to Pfizer, Johnson and Johnson, they have over 100,000 employees. So what that meant is a team that may number in the thousands at these larger companies, you know, youā€™re talking about a small number of people in each team at Moderna. In fact, the core team at Moderna is probably 10 to 15 people total.

So that meant each one of us covering specific areas of this developmental effort had to do what teams of hundreds or thousands were doing it at these larger companies.

Fortunately these key areas were covered by the most talented, innovative dedicated people Iā€™ve ever had the opportunity to work with. People that were entirely focused on the mission and performed above and beyond and I think the outcome really reflects that.

You know, I cover research ā€” thatā€™s the area that I cover, you know, the development of the vaccine, the evaluation of the vaccine in animal models. And then the technological aspects and how the vaccine is working, thatā€™s my area of coverage. I was part of the initial conversation after we got the sequence of SARS-CoV-2, how are we going to tackle this? Okay, hereā€™s what weā€™re going to do. And two days later we had our vaccine and we had the process of evaluating.

But thereā€™s other areas involved in the developmental process ā€” things like interacting with the FDA or health agencies around the world, communications with them. Running clinical trials, manufacturing the vaccine, scaling up to a billion doses. Thatā€™s a huge thing. And each one of those areas was covered by an incredibly talented, innovative person.

And no matter what the issue was, no matter how complex, they found a solution. And it enabled us to do in 11 months, what had never been done in that short a period of time. In some ways it was an asset. At a larger company, youā€™re going through multiple steps, informing, different groups, identifying strategies and paths forward.

At our company, itā€™s a small group. It limited the amount of information driven conversations that we needed to have. So weā€™re always just focused on the goal. Okay. What do we do? Okay. Hereā€™s what weā€™re going to do. Letā€™s do it. It allowed us to move very quickly. You know, I could pick up the phone at any moment, talk to anybody in my company, from the CEO down. Thatā€™s a rare situation. And it enabled us do what we did, but really itā€™s the dedication and the talent of the people that enabled this to happen.

Alex Cumming: With a team like this, these are people that youā€™re not going to forget when you go through something like this. So to have such a team that came so close together, Iā€™m certain you guys will remember each other for years and years and years to come.

Darin Edwards: Ā When youā€™re in high school, you always look forward to the 10-year reunion, 20-year reunion. I wouldnā€™t be surprised if this core group of people had these reunions, 10, 20, 30 years down the road. And I look forward to that.

You know, during the whole process, people would say, ā€œOh, this is incredibly hard. But wow what an opportunity.ā€ And one response that I had pretty commonly, ā€œThis has been amazing. I canā€™t wait to look back on it.ā€ Because it was so difficult in the moment, but recognizing that it is a unique and amazing journey that we had gone on and continued to go on. But and I know in hindsight, itā€™s going to be a lot more pleasant than it was during.

Alex Cumming: Oh, yeah. I definitely believe it. But to keep such an optimistic outlook on it in the moment, knowing that in retrospect, itā€™s one of those situations where youā€™re like, wonā€™t this be a story? Wonā€™t this be something to share, to tell, you know, the people that I meet, the people who come around me, that I was there. I developed it. I set the world back on path.

Darin Edwards: Iā€™ve already had the opportunity in a few cases to have those conversations with friends down there in Orlando coming down.

I have lifelong friends that live down there and just kind of sharing how it was with people that I love has been as been a lot of fun. I kind of look forward to the day where those conversations have already even been had. And I can just get back to life as normal. But at the same time, itā€™s definitely something that Iā€™m happy Iā€™ve been a part

Alex Cumming: I bet itā€™s a great icebreaker at parties.

Darin Edwards: Iā€™ll let you know when I start going to parties.

Alex Cumming: Well, thank you for letting us go back to parties. I appreciate it. So as the lead for the research and the development as the director of immunology at Moderna, what was the process of creating the vaccine like?

Darin Edwards: So Iā€™ll start back in late 2019. So there were reports coming out of a new respiratory virus that was circulating in Wuhan, China. Our CEO actually contacted the director of the NIH before there were even news reports really circulating about this and said that, hey, you know, we probably should start up a vaccine program just in case itā€™s needed.

So January 11, the sequence to that virus was posted on Twitter actually. And that day we had a meeting with the NIH, Dr. Barney Graham and his team specifically. We, at that time, had identified that it was a novel coronavirus, one that had not previously appeared. And we at that moment decided that, yes, letā€™s go ahead and start the process of developing a vaccine.

The process though starts years in the past. In the years in the past, we had developed the mRNA platform. We had tested it in multiple clinical trials, although we hadnā€™t yet had a licensed product because it typically takes more than a decade to develop that and get to licensure.

But we also had a four-year collaboration with the same team at the NIH on MERS, which is a Middle Eastern coronavirus. So we already knew how to tackle coronaviruses and specifically how to tackle them with a messenger RNA vaccine approach. So we applied that very quickly.

Two days later we had our vaccine. So that quickly, we were able to develop the approach. By January 13th, we met again, we aligned on the specific approach and specific sequence that we were actually going to deliver. And 42 days later, we had our clinical trial material. And even before that, we already had our preclinical vaccine material.

So by the end of January, I held the vaccine in my hand and that was January of 2020. And before the pandemic was even declared, we were already testing it in people. So, the vaccine effort has a foundation built on years of research. A vaccine effort in general though, you know, once you have identified an approach ā€” which we had very quickly, like I mentioned ā€” then relies on extensive research in preclinical models and also three different clinical study phases ā€” Phase one, two, and three. And unlike normal situations where you would do that sequentially, we did all that incredibly comprehensively in parallel to enable us to shorten the whole timeline. ]

One reason you donā€™t normally do that is cost. So the government support that we were given really helped with compressing those timelines. But I would say this effort that we did was more comprehensive in terms of science than any effort that Iā€™ve ever been part of. And Iā€™ve been a part of, more than 10 different vaccine efforts between my time at Sanofi Pasteur and now at Moderna.

From a scientific evaluation standpoint, from a comprehensive nature, itā€™s truly amazing how much work was done in such a short period of time and the quality of that work. And that was a lot in large part driven by the quality of the people, the quality of the scientific laboratories that were performing the work and just the dedication that was being given to the whole process.

Alex Cumming: Would you say a lot of that was stemming from that it was a day to day issue and that there was such an outcry for it. And that there was such pressure externally to say, we can see day to day how this is going along within people, that we have this time crunch, that the sooner, the better?

Darin Edwards: It was that, and it was the focus that was being paid to this problem by top academics, by top government agencies, by my team at Moderna, by everybody in the entire world. And barriers, you know, one of the things that really helped with this whole process is how barriers that are normally there in research were broken down.

Being able to engage with these experts in the academic space and being able to discuss and tackle problems and partneshipr with even other industry representatives ā€” being able to given the resources and the time at the FDA, in a way that we probably would not normally expect. We can pick up the phone and ask them questions or get feedback very quickly from them.

It all worked together to enable us to compress these timelines as quickly to as short a timeline and a process as what we ended up having. But really overall being able to work as a team and not just as a team at Moderna, but as a team globally to get the information we needed, to get the resources we needed when we needed them.

Alex Cumming: And you said that you had worldwide outreach with people you were discussing with to see how they were coming along with it all, along with being able to talk to anyone within your company, you said from the CEO to people, the people that you needed to speak to with.

Darin Edwards: Yeah. Iā€™ll, give you a couple of examples.

One Iā€™ve mentioned it before, but the partnership with the NIH and the laboratoriesĀ  and the personnel at the NIH, I mean, they work just as hard as we did. And I can recall several instances where we had a particular investigation that we were performing and we needed the data back on an immediate basis and having conversations and meetings at 3 a.m. to make this happen. And there was not a single time where I was unable to get in touch with somebody that I needed to talk to on an immediate basis.

But another example is. The scientific community up in Boston is very strong, both academically and from industry. And the focus of all of those bright minds were turned from the various research efforts that they had going on towards coronavirus and consortiums were put in place. And all of those efforts were really focused back on, on coronavirus. And what that led to is not only identification of the areas that we should be investigating for our vaccine, but also the ability to engage with them to make that happen. Particular safety concerns, for example, that we should be investigating prior to putting this in people. But other areas as well that, we might want further insight and further study into. And that goes beyond just our effort, that goes towards Johnson & Johnson or Pfizer.

The investigator that actually developed the Johnson & Johnson vaccine, Iā€™ve had several dozen conversations with early on during his efforts. In fact, I have a cell review article on the adenovirus vaccine technology and the mRNA vaccine technology with him. Just so people had a greater understanding of what our technology actually does and how it works.

And that openness really helped to not only make the work more palatable, meaning, when youā€™re open and youā€™re having, good work situations with people like that, it makes a stressful situation not as stressful. But also I think for all of us that enabled us to identify those critical things that we needed to work on.

Alex Cumming: Youā€™ve been working in your field for more than a decade. With this past year and a half, what new lessons did you learn?

Darin Edwards: You know, the first decade of my career in vaccine development really helped set the foundation of how I could operate in this last year and a half. But there were, I mean, literally hundreds of situations that I had never encountered, or my team had never encountered prior to the start of the pandemic.

Leveraging what I had from UCF, leveraging the time that I spent at Sanofi Pasteur and helped with those situations. But really we had to come up with a new road map. We really had to develop a new approaches and new strategies on the fly. And a lot of times it just came down to as a core teamā€” I mentioned the 10 to 15 critical people that were working during this time ā€” we just came up with strategies and worked through them in our minds and on paper and identified the path and the strategy that we thought would be most effective.

Fortunately, you know, those road maps seem to have led to the outcome that we needed it to. And I think itā€™s obvious that it was successful. But I mean there was worry, there was a stress along the way, not really knowing if what we were doing would ultimately be as effective as what we were hoping for.

When we hit certain milestones ā€” when we fully enrolled our phase three trial, for example, when we got the outcome, when we found out that we were 94.1% efficacious against any disease and 100% against severe disease ā€” it not only validated the work, the path that we took, but it was incredibly satisfying.

Those moments, knowing that that we were going to be successful.

Alex Cumming: Many scientists are saying that this wonā€™t be our last pandemic. What do you think are the lessons that we should learn for being better prepared for future ones?

Darin Edwards: As Iā€™m more research focused and more vaccine development focused, one of the things that really benefited us for this pandemic is that we did have new technologies that could rapidly respond. And we did have an understanding of coronaviruses in general from a research perspective.

So that foundational research, itā€™s very important that we continue, and continue to develop our platform techniques that we can use for a future pandemic, but also for key viruses or our pathogens that we know have the potential to become pandemics, develop our understanding of those viruses to enable us to very quickly and rapidly respond with confidence should another pandemic arise.

You think about coronavirus in general, it could evolve further. Weā€™ve had three recent potential pandemic coronavirus strains: SARS-CoV-1, MERS and now SARS-CoV-2. Fortunately the first two didnā€™t evolve into a pandemic. Public health measures actually have controlled those two, although MERS is still around. It has not turned into a pandemic virus.

But further monitoring and assessing approaches that we can take to maybe develop approaches even now that can more universally protect against all these potential pandemic coronaviruses is one strategy that we plan to explore and others plan to explore, but we need a focus to remain on that.

Influenza is another, we have a seasonal influenza vaccine. Weā€™re developing one at Moderna as well hopefully, which is more effective than the current seasonal viruses, but there are pandemic flu strains, so continued monitoring efforts and continue to research efforts in order to develop novel approaches that could tackle very quickly these pandemic strains should they arise.

I think thereā€™s also a regulatory aspect. The regulatory process that we went through this past year was a huge part of the time that we spent during the 11 month cycle, prior to the EUA (emergency use authorization). There might be additional and quicker regulatory processes that we could put in place for pandemic situations that would enable a more rapid response.

Alex Cumming: You know, the last year has given so many people so much to reflect on in themselves and how they interact with the world. And I think that coming out with the vaccine and being able to reassess what we might have taken for granted and how we go back into our normal day-to-day lives realizing whatā€™s important to us, keeping in mind that there are people that have been working tirelessly to make sure that so that this doesnā€™t happen again.

And for us to reflect and understand how we as individuals contribute to the greater picture, I think thatā€™s important to keep in mind.

Darin Edwards: Yeah, definitely. You know, it makes me reflect how much I miss seeing UCF football. I look forward to flying down for a couple of games this fall. But I really miss the opportunities that I think weā€™ve all missed this past year ā€” spending time with friends, having vacations, having downtime, having fun moments with family. I donā€™t think Iā€™m unique in missing all of those parts of our lives that we took for granted, and we probably shouldnā€™t take those for granted.

I mean, I donā€™t think the last year was a situation that we should ever consider to be normal.Iā€™m happy to be part of the solution to get us back to normal. But I think we should all expect and want, things to be normal and for us to remain there. So reflecting on what is important ā€” I just think that normal state, being able to freely get back and blow off steam by going golfing or going to the beach or going to a UCF football game.

I think that all is very important. And I look forward to that.

Alex Cumming: Well, as a big UCF sports fan, Ā football and otherwise, thank you. Iā€™m so excited to see all the fans, making it loudĀ  in the Bounce House andā€¦

Darin Edwards: Letā€™s make it bounceā€¦

Alex Cumming: all around campus. I love to hear that. So, Darin whatā€™s advice that you would give to somebody who wants to do what youā€™ve done in your career?

Darin Edwards: I think the best advice I can give is, to be flexible, to adjust to situations, to not be afraid, to take chances and take risks, and to approach each situation uniquely.

As a scientist, as somebody that has had more than one career up to this point, thereā€™s evolution that goes on from a personal and professional level within each role. And I think the best advice I can give for any field for person in any industry in any field is to not be afraid to evolve. And to develop and to be loud when necessary, to give your Ā perspective and to rely a lot of times on personal intuition.

But also to be good to the people that you work with and work for you. Thatā€™s very important to me ā€” to look for areas and ways that you can develop your team to not only support you, but also to push their careers forward. It pays off from a satisfaction level, but also it pays off from the standpoint of, you have people that you can rely on that have greater capabilities.

But overall, you know, just that flexibility, just move forward in the way that you think. Donā€™t think that youā€™ll be doing the same thing for a long period of time. Nothing stays the same. Be willing to change along with, your changing job or your changing field.

Alex Cumming: Being open to being flexible, being open to new opportunities when they present themselves.

Darin Edwards: Exactly. I mean, I think that not only goes for your job, but life in general. Weā€™re constantly changing as people, growing, new family started we always need to adjust to the situation.

Alex Cumming: Well, I mean, on a school level, taking account of your major and maybe saying, you know, maybe this isnā€™t for me, maybe I want to try dabbling in this.

Darin Edwards: Yeah. And just kind of jumping around, even if you arenā€™t changing your major, maybe take a few classes outside of your major just to see what other perspectives that might bring you. And in careers, itā€™s valuable that you have breadth. It allows you to pull from multiple disciplines where perhaps other people that donā€™t have that breadth are not able to very quickly pivot or evolve as quickly as somebody that has more breadth and more depth.

And I think that is good advice, no matter who you are at what stage in your life.

Alex Cumming: Or taking a bowling class to blow off some steam.

Darin Edwards: Hey, nothing wrong with blowing off steam.

Alex Cumming: Not at all. Whatā€™s one thing that youā€™re still hoping to do?

Darin Edwards: Well, I think at some point Iā€™d really love to go skydiving.

Thatā€™s a good question. I havenā€™t really given it ā€” whatā€™s next, I havenā€™t really given that much thought yet. I think there are from the job that I still have and still love and enjoy, there are a lot of infectious disease targets that are next, ones that weā€™re going to plan to use our technology to tackle.

And thatā€™s an ongoing process and an ongoing effort and from a professional standpoint and from a scientific standpoint, thatā€™s whatā€™s next for us. Whatā€™s next for me is, I do look forward to getting back to normal life and going to parties and hopefully going golfing occasionally and getting down for a UCF football game.

But also just to continue to push. We still have a lot of work to do. Not only on the current pandemic, you know, itā€™s not over in most of the world. Weā€™re lucky here in the U.S. but itā€™s not over in other countries, so thereā€™s still work to be done there. But also outside of the pandemic, thereā€™s still work to be done against infectious disease in general, not only against the ones that we currently should be fighting, but also ones that could emerge in the future, future pandemics, for example.

Alex Cumming: Ā Yeah. Well, Darin, I want to say thank you so much for talking with me today. Itā€™s been such a pleasure and an honor to get to hear from you and to hear your perspective on everything.

Darin Edwards: Thank you so much.

Alex Cumming: Congratulations. And I hope to get to see you at a football game this fall.

Darin Edwards: Hey, Iā€™ll be cheering my head off.

Alex Cumming: Good to talk with you.

Darin Edwards: Yep. Letā€™s go Knights!

Alex Cumming: Ā Charge on.

Thanks again for listening. Be sure to stream and download on whatever platform you use to listen to podcasts. I hope youā€™re enjoying learning how Knights are making a positive impact in our community, our nation and the world. And hey, if youā€™re doing something cool, whether thatā€™s at UCF or somewhere you took UCF that we should know about wend us an email at socialmedia@ucf.edu, and maybe weā€™ll see you on an episode in the future. Go Knights and Charge On.